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	<title>Comments on: Gluckman stumbles, Part 2 &#8211; Sludge</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-23087</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 17:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-23087</guid>
		<description>Brilliant. This is the theme to hammer, for it is never referred to and nobody has an answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant. This is the theme to hammer, for it is never referred to and nobody has an answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-23084</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-23084</guid>
		<description>Someday Sir Peter shall bare all! Thus shall the demonic denialists be routed by the god-fearing allegalists. Roll on that day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someday Sir Peter shall bare all! Thus shall the demonic denialists be routed by the god-fearing allegalists. Roll on that day!</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-23083</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-23083</guid>
		<description>So, Sir Peter seems to suspect it wos the human what done it. One assumes he is painstakingly collating his evidence and will soon have a grand denouement for us all -– gathered in the grand hall. 

One cannot but admire his skill. In his seemingly endless Victoria speech, he dropped not a hint of what that evidence might be.In fact, one can scour all his speeches with minute care and find no reason whatever to suspect the hapless human.

He doubtless has some profound reason for keeping his powder dry. But his impact will be the greater when he finally tables the seminal peer-reviewed paper which attributes global warming to the activities of humans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, Sir Peter seems to suspect it wos the human what done it. One assumes he is painstakingly collating his evidence and will soon have a grand denouement for us all -– gathered in the grand hall. </p>
<p>One cannot but admire his skill. In his seemingly endless Victoria speech, he dropped not a hint of what that evidence might be.In fact, one can scour all his speeches with minute care and find no reason whatever to suspect the hapless human.</p>
<p>He doubtless has some profound reason for keeping his powder dry. But his impact will be the greater when he finally tables the seminal peer-reviewed paper which attributes global warming to the activities of humans.</p>
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		<title>By: Bulaman</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22995</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 03:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22995</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the problem with the whole process. No one knows year to year what will happen. A Geroge Soros type can manipulate the market to his own ends.  At the moment they are pretty much all government controlled so there is no private enterprise in it. Without government support (subsidy) any &quot;trade&quot; system would have failed just as surely as wind energy and similar technologies fail without tax payer support. Investment in the forest industry will dissappear because if you sign in to the credits you also assume the liabilities at harvest. This means the forest owner may be more concerned about repaying credits than harvesting the forest so there is no log supply for the processor. Of course no one will insure for carbon losses (fire) so there is some reluctance to take this up..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the problem with the whole process. No one knows year to year what will happen. A Geroge Soros type can manipulate the market to his own ends.  At the moment they are pretty much all government controlled so there is no private enterprise in it. Without government support (subsidy) any &#8220;trade&#8221; system would have failed just as surely as wind energy and similar technologies fail without tax payer support. Investment in the forest industry will dissappear because if you sign in to the credits you also assume the liabilities at harvest. This means the forest owner may be more concerned about repaying credits than harvesting the forest so there is no log supply for the processor. Of course no one will insure for carbon losses (fire) so there is some reluctance to take this up..</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22994</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22994</guid>
		<description>You might also like to ask Dr Smith whether he knows that Phil Jones got to endorse his own papers for the Oxburgh enquiry

As revealed today on WUWT and via Bishop Hill

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/19/breaking-phil-jones-got-to-endorse-papers-for-oxburgh-inquiry/

and based on this and other open and unresolved scandals (amazongate) why should we have any faith whatsoever in climate science and the corrupt institutions that peddle this stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You might also like to ask Dr Smith whether he knows that Phil Jones got to endorse his own papers for the Oxburgh enquiry</p>
<p>As revealed today on WUWT and via Bishop Hill</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/19/breaking-phil-jones-got-to-endorse-papers-for-oxburgh-inquiry/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/07/19/breaking-phil-jones-got-to-endorse-papers-for-oxburgh-inquiry/</a></p>
<p>and based on this and other open and unresolved scandals (amazongate) why should we have any faith whatsoever in climate science and the corrupt institutions that peddle this stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22993</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 01:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22993</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the info, Bulaman, but where do we find the cost of these credits? Any businessman wanted to cost his or her expenses will need to know these numbers, just like we need to know the cost of any other commodity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the info, Bulaman, but where do we find the cost of these credits? Any businessman wanted to cost his or her expenses will need to know these numbers, just like we need to know the cost of any other commodity.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22991</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 23:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22991</guid>
		<description>Bulaman, thanks for the offer!

1. Because of the costs of our ETS and the changes it will force on us, everyone wants to be sure that the reasoning behind the ETS is unquestionable. So, first, would you please state, in your own words, the actual evidence of a dangerous human influence on the climate?

2. Your government says that, disregarding doubts about the science, we should fear damaging repercussions from our trading partners if we fail to respond to the predictions of a climatic disaster. So what repercussions have occurred or will occur against those very trading partners for their lack of response?

3. What are the results of any analysis the government might have conducted, as is its duty, into the costs and benefits to the nation of having and of not having an ETS, and of the effects of having or not having an ETS on the world&#039;s climate? Or is it the case that no proper analysis was conducted?

4. Were you, John Key and other leading members of the National Government, in changing so publicly from opposing the Labour Government&#039;s ETS to championing it, subject to influence from international bodies or from other countries, or is your about-face linked to the NZ-China Free Trade Agreement?

5. No meaningful international treaty emerged from the greatly-anticipated Copenhagen conference; we alone have installed a wide-ranging scheme. Why has no other sovereign state, ruled by democratically elected leaders, not a regional association such as the EU, ruled by unelected bureaucrats, freely introduced an ETS or other climate-changing scheme?

Number 1 would be my must-ask and the others in that order, in case you get stopped. But change the order of numbers 2–5 as you wish.

I&#039;m aware that one of our objectives here is not only to obtain clear answers (which would be nice), but to publicly demonstrate the absence of clear answers. The more often that happens the sooner the house of cards must collapse.

Good luck! Where is this happening tonight?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bulaman, thanks for the offer!</p>
<p>1. Because of the costs of our ETS and the changes it will force on us, everyone wants to be sure that the reasoning behind the ETS is unquestionable. So, first, would you please state, in your own words, the actual evidence of a dangerous human influence on the climate?</p>
<p>2. Your government says that, disregarding doubts about the science, we should fear damaging repercussions from our trading partners if we fail to respond to the predictions of a climatic disaster. So what repercussions have occurred or will occur against those very trading partners for their lack of response?</p>
<p>3. What are the results of any analysis the government might have conducted, as is its duty, into the costs and benefits to the nation of having and of not having an ETS, and of the effects of having or not having an ETS on the world&#8217;s climate? Or is it the case that no proper analysis was conducted?</p>
<p>4. Were you, John Key and other leading members of the National Government, in changing so publicly from opposing the Labour Government&#8217;s ETS to championing it, subject to influence from international bodies or from other countries, or is your about-face linked to the NZ-China Free Trade Agreement?</p>
<p>5. No meaningful international treaty emerged from the greatly-anticipated Copenhagen conference; we alone have installed a wide-ranging scheme. Why has no other sovereign state, ruled by democratically elected leaders, not a regional association such as the EU, ruled by unelected bureaucrats, freely introduced an ETS or other climate-changing scheme?</p>
<p>Number 1 would be my must-ask and the others in that order, in case you get stopped. But change the order of numbers 2–5 as you wish.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m aware that one of our objectives here is not only to obtain clear answers (which would be nice), but to publicly demonstrate the absence of clear answers. The more often that happens the sooner the house of cards must collapse.</p>
<p>Good luck! Where is this happening tonight?</p>
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		<title>By: Bulaman</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22990</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:51:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22990</guid>
		<description>The CCX one is simple.. We trade in &quot;gold&#039; standard credits that have higher accountability than required for the CCX. You could probably sell the tower bridge on that CCX thing as carbon locked up in stones!! 
Most of our carbon sales (indulgences) from forests go to EU (Norway) power companies.  The fun part comes when EU power consumers (voters) realise they are paying for trees over here. This thing is effectively SMP&#039;s for trees. Trees of course that are owned offshore so like the carousel frauds in Europe the payola does not stay here..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The CCX one is simple.. We trade in &#8220;gold&#8217; standard credits that have higher accountability than required for the CCX. You could probably sell the tower bridge on that CCX thing as carbon locked up in stones!!<br />
Most of our carbon sales (indulgences) from forests go to EU (Norway) power companies.  The fun part comes when EU power consumers (voters) realise they are paying for trees over here. This thing is effectively SMP&#8217;s for trees. Trees of course that are owned offshore so like the carousel frauds in Europe the payola does not stay here..</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22989</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22989</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d specifically like you to ask him why we are paying $12.50 a tonne for CO2 under the ETS, when the CCX is trading at 10c a tonne

Moreover, I&#039;d like some clarification on what markets the NZ ETS will be aligned with. It is my understanding that after the transition period, we will be paying the market rate. So which market do we need to look at? 

If you can get an answer, I&#039;d be very happy!
Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d specifically like you to ask him why we are paying $12.50 a tonne for CO2 under the ETS, when the CCX is trading at 10c a tonne</p>
<p>Moreover, I&#8217;d like some clarification on what markets the NZ ETS will be aligned with. It is my understanding that after the transition period, we will be paying the market rate. So which market do we need to look at? </p>
<p>If you can get an answer, I&#8217;d be very happy!<br />
Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Bulaman</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/07/gluckman-stumbles-part-2-sludge/comment-page-1/#comment-22988</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jul 2010 20:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=5961#comment-22988</guid>
		<description>We have Nick (I have a PHD so I&#039;m a genius) Smith in town tonight as part of the PR road show.. What do you want asked?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have Nick (I have a PHD so I&#8217;m a genius) Smith in town tonight as part of the PR road show.. What do you want asked?</p>
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