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	<title>Comments on: Observations on NIWA&#8217;s Statement of Defence</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: NIWA v Cranks 4: Shoot out at the fantasy factory</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-62004</link>
		<dc:creator>NIWA v Cranks 4: Shoot out at the fantasy factory</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2011 07:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-62004</guid>
		<description>[...] let&#8217;s go to the source: Treadgold. Yesterday he wrote about his interpretation of NIWA&#8217;s statement of defence: &#8230; NIWA formally denies all responsibility for the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] let&#8217;s go to the source: Treadgold. Yesterday he wrote about his interpretation of NIWA&#8217;s statement of defence: &#8230; NIWA formally denies all responsibility for the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Record cold Across California - Page 3 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-30523</link>
		<dc:creator>Record cold Across California - Page 3 - US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-30523</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Jowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-30034</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Jowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Nov 2010 03:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-30034</guid>
		<description>Richard T - have you had time to rewrite the article along the lines suggested by Watts? If so, please link to it for me. Cheers, Mike</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard T &#8211; have you had time to rewrite the article along the lines suggested by Watts? If so, please link to it for me. Cheers, Mike</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-29630</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 07:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-29630</guid>
		<description>Sandy John O&#039;Sullivan and I wrote an article on a recent BOM u-turn - JUST Picking one site  http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/11/new-retreat-from-global-warming-data-by.html
Dr Marohassy was corageous enough to put the article on her blog
Confirmation Bias at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (Part 2)
at http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/
there is a copy of the abstract of a recent media release referred to in that article and on WUWT and here on the BOM discovers UHI article 
There is a question by some researchers that BOM may have reduced historical data so as to make current data warmer
do you have any comment on that</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandy John O&#8217;Sullivan and I wrote an article on a recent BOM u-turn &#8211; JUST Picking one site  <a href="http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/11/new-retreat-from-global-warming-data-by.html" rel="nofollow">http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/11/new-retreat-from-global-warming-data-by.html</a><br />
Dr Marohassy was corageous enough to put the article on her blog<br />
Confirmation Bias at the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (Part 2)<br />
at <a href="http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/" rel="nofollow">http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/</a><br />
there is a copy of the abstract of a recent media release referred to in that article and on WUWT and here on the BOM discovers UHI article<br />
There is a question by some researchers that BOM may have reduced historical data so as to make current data warmer<br />
do you have any comment on that</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-29611</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 03:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-29611</guid>
		<description>Sandy that&#039;s fascinating; you didn&#039;t do the average for daily minimums as well by any chance? If you check out the BOM discovers UHI article (on the right under the heading hot off the press) you&#039;ll find a couple of other researchers examining temperature claims made by the BOM referring to their HQ data - links are in the comments</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandy that&#8217;s fascinating; you didn&#8217;t do the average for daily minimums as well by any chance? If you check out the BOM discovers UHI article (on the right under the heading hot off the press) you&#8217;ll find a couple of other researchers examining temperature claims made by the BOM referring to their HQ data &#8211; links are in the comments</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-29605</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 02:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-29605</guid>
		<description>&quot;Big cities are a different story – strong warming&quot;

Any site influenced by UHI is a useless indicator of climate - they should be discarded.

If, on the other hand, you are wanting to measure the effect of man-made heat sinks, they are indispensable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Big cities are a different story – strong warming&#8221;</p>
<p>Any site influenced by UHI is a useless indicator of climate &#8211; they should be discarded.</p>
<p>If, on the other hand, you are wanting to measure the effect of man-made heat sinks, they are indispensable.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy McClintck</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-29603</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy McClintck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Nov 2010 02:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-29603</guid>
		<description>The appointment of BOM (Australia) as the auditor makes me cringe!  I have looked at lots of aussie sites and seen the same downward biases as reported in your paper.  When I pointed this out to BOM, I was told it would be un-scientific to ignore the station histories that led to the &#039;adjustments&#039;.  Station Histories are not available it seems.
I have looked at some of the Australian weather station records and see cases where cooling trends in raw data changed to upward trends in ‘adjusted’ data. here is a typical example:-
http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/echuca-temperature.pdf

When I look at isolated rural towns I see little or no evidence for warming in Australia. Big cities are a different story – strong warming. This write-up shows a small number of examples but I have found many more similar cases:-
http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mcclintock-country.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The appointment of BOM (Australia) as the auditor makes me cringe!  I have looked at lots of aussie sites and seen the same downward biases as reported in your paper.  When I pointed this out to BOM, I was told it would be un-scientific to ignore the station histories that led to the &#8216;adjustments&#8217;.  Station Histories are not available it seems.<br />
I have looked at some of the Australian weather station records and see cases where cooling trends in raw data changed to upward trends in ‘adjusted’ data. here is a typical example:-<br />
<a href="http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/echuca-temperature.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/echuca-temperature.pdf</a></p>
<p>When I look at isolated rural towns I see little or no evidence for warming in Australia. Big cities are a different story – strong warming. This write-up shows a small number of examples but I have found many more similar cases:-<br />
<a href="http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mcclintock-country.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mcclintock-country.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-27951</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Oct 2010 21:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-27951</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s John O&#039;Sullivan doing an interview after Climate Fools Day in the UK
He mentions NIWA
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-27/climate-change-fools-sceptics.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s John O&#8217;Sullivan doing an interview after Climate Fools Day in the UK<br />
He mentions NIWA<br />
<a href="http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-27/climate-change-fools-sceptics.html" rel="nofollow">http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-10-27/climate-change-fools-sceptics.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-26650</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-26650</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been searching the net to see where Salinger got his PhD but no luck but there is this explanation in Crisis in New Zealand climatology by Barry Brill
http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2010/05/crisis-in-new-zealand-climatology

Global warming during the 20th Century was 0.6C, with a margin of error of +/-0.2C. The Southern Hemisphere warming was less than half that level. But New Zealand warming, according to NIWA, was almost twice the global average - and with no error margins mentioned. 

Referring to the NIWA web page, one finds that this major warming trend is the product of a single study involving only 7 temperature stations - out of the 238 stations which currently report to NIWA. In response to a request under the Official information Act, NIWA has disclosed that this study was undertaken as part of a student’s thesis some 30 years ago. 

NIWA has no record of how the NSS came to be in their computers. The only reasonable inference is that the student himself, one Jim Salinger, must have added it when he became NIWA’s Principal Scientist many years later. 

Now I&#039;ve found Richard&#039;s article at this august site:

http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/04/niwa-disowns-salinger-thesis/

Thesis available, but only in Wellington
ACT MP John Boscawen asked a question in the Parliament of the Minister of Research, Science and Technology, Dr Wayne Mapp:

Can the minister confirm that Dr Salinger’s PhD thesis is still “publicly available”? If so, where, and how may it be obtained?

A simple question, you might think, and so it is. Listen to the answer from Dr Mapp. 
I am advised that Dr Salinger’s PhD thesis is publicly available through the Victoria University Library. This thesis is in the Closed Reserve Collection at VUW Library. It can be accessed by the public.

(Note that VUW means Victoria University of Wellington.) Though I don’t like the sound of the “Closed Reserve Collection”, it’s good news that he says the thesis is available to the general public. But listen to the conditions:

To view the thesis, members of the public can visit the Closed Reserve Desk between 8am and 5pm Monday to Friday. On production of an ID, they can be issued a temporary visitors card and can check out the thesis for up to six hours. The thesis must be kept within the library.

So you have to go to Wellington, you have to read and absorb hundreds of technical pages in only six hours and you can only copy a little bit of it. Presumably you get another six hours each day you stay in Wellington. It could cost a lot of money unless you have relatives in Wellington.

and note Richard&#039;s comment to that article (quoting in part) NIWA&#039;s response to the NZCSC

You asked about adjustments made to the seven station data series. Information regarding those adjustments is available from the following publicly available sources.” You will note he does not say “the adjustments are contained within” the sources. Then he cites

· Salinger, M.J., 1981. New Zealand Climate: The instrumental record. Thesis
submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy at the Victoria University of
Wellington, January 1981;
· Rhoades, D.A., and Salinger, M.J., 1993: Adjustment of temperature and rainfall
measurements for site changes. International Journal of Climatology, 13, 899 –
913;



I recommend this article for background material which is probably all in a thread somewhere on this site which I just haven&#039;t found yet</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been searching the net to see where Salinger got his PhD but no luck but there is this explanation in Crisis in New Zealand climatology by Barry Brill<br />
<a href="http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2010/05/crisis-in-new-zealand-climatology" rel="nofollow">http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2010/05/crisis-in-new-zealand-climatology</a></p>
<p>Global warming during the 20th Century was 0.6C, with a margin of error of +/-0.2C. The Southern Hemisphere warming was less than half that level. But New Zealand warming, according to NIWA, was almost twice the global average &#8211; and with no error margins mentioned. </p>
<p>Referring to the NIWA web page, one finds that this major warming trend is the product of a single study involving only 7 temperature stations &#8211; out of the 238 stations which currently report to NIWA. In response to a request under the Official information Act, NIWA has disclosed that this study was undertaken as part of a student’s thesis some 30 years ago. </p>
<p>NIWA has no record of how the NSS came to be in their computers. The only reasonable inference is that the student himself, one Jim Salinger, must have added it when he became NIWA’s Principal Scientist many years later. </p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ve found Richard&#8217;s article at this august site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/04/niwa-disowns-salinger-thesis/" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/04/niwa-disowns-salinger-thesis/</a></p>
<p>Thesis available, but only in Wellington<br />
ACT MP John Boscawen asked a question in the Parliament of the Minister of Research, Science and Technology, Dr Wayne Mapp:</p>
<p>Can the minister confirm that Dr Salinger’s PhD thesis is still “publicly available”? If so, where, and how may it be obtained?</p>
<p>A simple question, you might think, and so it is. Listen to the answer from Dr Mapp.<br />
I am advised that Dr Salinger’s PhD thesis is publicly available through the Victoria University Library. This thesis is in the Closed Reserve Collection at VUW Library. It can be accessed by the public.</p>
<p>(Note that VUW means Victoria University of Wellington.) Though I don’t like the sound of the “Closed Reserve Collection”, it’s good news that he says the thesis is available to the general public. But listen to the conditions:</p>
<p>To view the thesis, members of the public can visit the Closed Reserve Desk between 8am and 5pm Monday to Friday. On production of an ID, they can be issued a temporary visitors card and can check out the thesis for up to six hours. The thesis must be kept within the library.</p>
<p>So you have to go to Wellington, you have to read and absorb hundreds of technical pages in only six hours and you can only copy a little bit of it. Presumably you get another six hours each day you stay in Wellington. It could cost a lot of money unless you have relatives in Wellington.</p>
<p>and note Richard&#8217;s comment to that article (quoting in part) NIWA&#8217;s response to the NZCSC</p>
<p>You asked about adjustments made to the seven station data series. Information regarding those adjustments is available from the following publicly available sources.” You will note he does not say “the adjustments are contained within” the sources. Then he cites</p>
<p>· Salinger, M.J., 1981. New Zealand Climate: The instrumental record. Thesis<br />
submitted for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy at the Victoria University of<br />
Wellington, January 1981;<br />
· Rhoades, D.A., and Salinger, M.J., 1993: Adjustment of temperature and rainfall<br />
measurements for site changes. International Journal of Climatology, 13, 899 –<br />
913;</p>
<p>I recommend this article for background material which is probably all in a thread somewhere on this site which I just haven&#8217;t found yet</p>
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		<title>By: Climate Conversation Group &#187; Open threads as promised</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/10/observations-on-niwas-statement-of-defence/comment-page-1/#comment-25798</link>
		<dc:creator>Climate Conversation Group &#187; Open threads as promised</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=6960#comment-25798</guid>
		<description>[...] record number of comments previously was 68 recorded on &#8220;Observations on NIWA’s Statement of Defence&#8221; but now the record is up to 138 recorded on &#8220;World of sceptical questions [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] record number of comments previously was 68 recorded on &#8220;Observations on NIWA’s Statement of Defence&#8221; but now the record is up to 138 recorded on &#8220;World of sceptical questions [...]</p>
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