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	<title>Comments on: The BOM discovers UHI</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Australis</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-32915</link>
		<dc:creator>Australis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 10:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-32915</guid>
		<description>Val

I was astonished at the candour of BOM in this quote:

&quot;MAXTEMPs at Sydney and Melbourne are found to be increasing, respectively, at rates 0.080 deg C per decade and 0.071 deg C per decade faster than the average temperature at the 73 sites&quot;.

So large cities experience UHI effects at the average rate (for daily maxima) of approx 0.75°C/century. As Belinda Campbell pointed out, the effects on daily minima are better known, and therefore probably greater.

Ergo, the UHI effect in large cities is greater than the total global warming recorded during the past century. Whether the effect is the same in smaller urban areas is not known, but the authority cited by Richard C suggests it is even greater in faster growing towns. And it is notable that BOM purportedly exclude ALL towns with populations above 10,000.

This seems to put paid to the murky paper by Jones &amp; Wang (1992?) which has underpinned all the IPCC temp conclusions for nearly 20 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Val</p>
<p>I was astonished at the candour of BOM in this quote:</p>
<p>&#8220;MAXTEMPs at Sydney and Melbourne are found to be increasing, respectively, at rates 0.080 deg C per decade and 0.071 deg C per decade faster than the average temperature at the 73 sites&#8221;.</p>
<p>So large cities experience UHI effects at the average rate (for daily maxima) of approx 0.75°C/century. As Belinda Campbell pointed out, the effects on daily minima are better known, and therefore probably greater.</p>
<p>Ergo, the UHI effect in large cities is greater than the total global warming recorded during the past century. Whether the effect is the same in smaller urban areas is not known, but the authority cited by Richard C suggests it is even greater in faster growing towns. And it is notable that BOM purportedly exclude ALL towns with populations above 10,000.</p>
<p>This seems to put paid to the murky paper by Jones &amp; Wang (1992?) which has underpinned all the IPCC temp conclusions for nearly 20 years.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29915</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:35:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29915</guid>
		<description>and here&#039;s another fascinating link (thanks el gordo)
http://www.holtonweather.com/WHAT%20IS%20THE%20MAIN%20FACTOR%20CONTROLLING%20THE%20MURRAY%20DARLING%20BASIN%20SYSTEM%20RAINFALL.pdf
conclusions:
The results show that the Sinusoidal Solar-Lunar Cycles have controlled the general Murray Darling Basin (South QLD-NSW-VIC-SA) Rainfall Trends from 1900 to 2006....During the critical Autumn to Spring &amp; River- Dam inflow- Irrigation and Dry-land farming period....And the most helpful information about this close connection, is that we are able, from the Copeland and Watts Sinusoidal Model, to forecast with a high degree of confidence the next 30 years or so Murray Darling Basin General Rainfall &amp; Dam Inflow Trends...As the future plotted Sinusoidal Model Trace is based on regular and recurring cycles that have not altered significantly in the past, and should not alter significantly in the future.....Therefore, any general Murray Darling Basin Southern Wet Season General Rainfall Trends that we can forecast from the Sinusoidal Solar-Lunar Model are highly likely to be accurate general trend rainfall &amp; dam inflow forecasts.

It is the firm opinion of the author that weather, ocean and rainfall patterns are cyclic. They always have been, and always will continue to do so.......And that any dire predictions of continuing &amp; worsening drought in the Murray Darling Basin, and in fact in any region of Australia, are entirely unfounded.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and here&#8217;s another fascinating link (thanks el gordo)<br />
<a href="http://www.holtonweather.com/WHAT%20IS%20THE%20MAIN%20FACTOR%20CONTROLLING%20THE%20MURRAY%20DARLING%20BASIN%20SYSTEM%20RAINFALL.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.holtonweather.com/WHAT%20IS%20THE%20MAIN%20FACTOR%20CONTROLLING%20THE%20MURRAY%20DARLING%20BASIN%20SYSTEM%20RAINFALL.pdf</a><br />
conclusions:<br />
The results show that the Sinusoidal Solar-Lunar Cycles have controlled the general Murray Darling Basin (South QLD-NSW-VIC-SA) Rainfall Trends from 1900 to 2006&#8230;.During the critical Autumn to Spring &amp; River- Dam inflow- Irrigation and Dry-land farming period&#8230;.And the most helpful information about this close connection, is that we are able, from the Copeland and Watts Sinusoidal Model, to forecast with a high degree of confidence the next 30 years or so Murray Darling Basin General Rainfall &amp; Dam Inflow Trends&#8230;As the future plotted Sinusoidal Model Trace is based on regular and recurring cycles that have not altered significantly in the past, and should not alter significantly in the future&#8230;..Therefore, any general Murray Darling Basin Southern Wet Season General Rainfall Trends that we can forecast from the Sinusoidal Solar-Lunar Model are highly likely to be accurate general trend rainfall &amp; dam inflow forecasts.</p>
<p>It is the firm opinion of the author that weather, ocean and rainfall patterns are cyclic. They always have been, and always will continue to do so&#8230;&#8230;.And that any dire predictions of continuing &amp; worsening drought in the Murray Darling Basin, and in fact in any region of Australia, are entirely unfounded.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29913</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Nov 2010 00:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29913</guid>
		<description>I picked up this very interesting paper from a commentator at Dr Marohasy&#039;s site
(thanks cohenite)
http://landshape.org/images/StockwellCSP.ppt.pdf
Negating climate change policy by
Dr David RB Stockwell, former consultant to the
Australian Government, biodiversity scientist at
San Diego Supercomputer Center, University of
California San Diego and the University of
California Santa Barbara, publications in major
journals with over 1000 citations

Here&#039;s his website http://landshape.org/about-the-author/
There&#039;s a comment there by Warwick Hughes referring to this page 
http://landshape.org/enm/inquiry-into-long-term-meteorological-forecasting-in-australia/

The Committee recommends that CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology provide to the Australian Government a report with detailed explanatory information as to why a particular dynamic forecasting model or system was chosen for use in Australia. The report should be completed by the end of 2010.  

As Warwick says something to watch for</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I picked up this very interesting paper from a commentator at Dr Marohasy&#8217;s site<br />
(thanks cohenite)<br />
<a href="http://landshape.org/images/StockwellCSP.ppt.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://landshape.org/images/StockwellCSP.ppt.pdf</a><br />
Negating climate change policy by<br />
Dr David RB Stockwell, former consultant to the<br />
Australian Government, biodiversity scientist at<br />
San Diego Supercomputer Center, University of<br />
California San Diego and the University of<br />
California Santa Barbara, publications in major<br />
journals with over 1000 citations</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s his website <a href="http://landshape.org/about-the-author/" rel="nofollow">http://landshape.org/about-the-author/</a><br />
There&#8217;s a comment there by Warwick Hughes referring to this page<br />
<a href="http://landshape.org/enm/inquiry-into-long-term-meteorological-forecasting-in-australia/" rel="nofollow">http://landshape.org/enm/inquiry-into-long-term-meteorological-forecasting-in-australia/</a></p>
<p>The Committee recommends that CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology provide to the Australian Government a report with detailed explanatory information as to why a particular dynamic forecasting model or system was chosen for use in Australia. The report should be completed by the end of 2010.  </p>
<p>As Warwick says something to watch for</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29458</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 03:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29458</guid>
		<description>The Torok paper is added now to the Files area and mentioned as an update to the post. Thanks to you, Val, and Ken Stewart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Torok paper is added now to the Files area and mentioned as an update to the post. Thanks to you, Val, and Ken Stewart.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29441</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29441</guid>
		<description>Thanks Richard; I think I sent very similar posts yesterday at 7.28 pm &amp; 11.18 pm yesterday (16/11); they&#039;re basically the same as the one I sent today (17/11 at 8.32 am) so delete whichever ones you want; or leave them; up to you
In relation to the BOM as yet unpublished paper I think Warwick Hughes has nailed it &quot;I doubt if any of us common herd will ever get to see the ADAM data)
In the meantime Australis is asking for the Torok paper I e mailed to you yesterday; could you post that in the article; as you know it&#039;s 10 pages</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Richard; I think I sent very similar posts yesterday at 7.28 pm &amp; 11.18 pm yesterday (16/11); they&#8217;re basically the same as the one I sent today (17/11 at 8.32 am) so delete whichever ones you want; or leave them; up to you<br />
In relation to the BOM as yet unpublished paper I think Warwick Hughes has nailed it &#8220;I doubt if any of us common herd will ever get to see the ADAM data)<br />
In the meantime Australis is asking for the Torok paper I e mailed to you yesterday; could you post that in the article; as you know it&#8217;s 10 pages</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29439</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 01:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29439</guid>
		<description>Val:

I&#039;ve only just had the time to take a look at this. Thanks for letting me know about it! Your posts went to the spam folder. The problem was with the large number of links in the post; as it&#039;s a characteristic of spam, it triggers the spam detection software. I&#039;ll investigate to see whether I can exempt posts for particular senders, then it will stop being a problem for you.

I had a quick look at your posts and there seem to be differences between them; I don&#039;t have time to compare them word for word, so identify any duplicates you want deleted and I&#039;ll get rid of them.

If you notice your post vanish in future, do send me an email directly, because I don&#039;t see the spam comments any more. I had to put a stop to it, since the site gets up to 200 - 250 spam messages a day.

Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Val:</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve only just had the time to take a look at this. Thanks for letting me know about it! Your posts went to the spam folder. The problem was with the large number of links in the post; as it&#8217;s a characteristic of spam, it triggers the spam detection software. I&#8217;ll investigate to see whether I can exempt posts for particular senders, then it will stop being a problem for you.</p>
<p>I had a quick look at your posts and there seem to be differences between them; I don&#8217;t have time to compare them word for word, so identify any duplicates you want deleted and I&#8217;ll get rid of them.</p>
<p>If you notice your post vanish in future, do send me an email directly, because I don&#8217;t see the spam comments any more. I had to put a stop to it, since the site gets up to 200 &#8211; 250 spam messages a day.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29438</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29438</guid>
		<description>Australis: In the meantime check out the papers referred to by Warwick Hughes above.
I suppose you have seen this ten year old paper:
“Urban heat island features of southeast Australian towns”
http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2001/torok_hres.pdf

Then there is our 64 station review by Hughes and Balling, “Eastern Australia temperature variations 1930-1992″
http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/eastoz.htm
The page 19 graphic;
http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/Hbeoz19.gif
sums up changes in mean T and DTR for stations with population ranging from 1000 up to a million and more over Eastern Australia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Australis: In the meantime check out the papers referred to by Warwick Hughes above.<br />
I suppose you have seen this ten year old paper:<br />
“Urban heat island features of southeast Australian towns”<br />
<a href="http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2001/torok_hres.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.bom.gov.au/amm/docs/2001/torok_hres.pdf</a></p>
<p>Then there is our 64 station review by Hughes and Balling, “Eastern Australia temperature variations 1930-1992″<br />
<a href="http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/eastoz.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/eastoz.htm</a><br />
The page 19 graphic;<br />
<a href="http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/Hbeoz19.gif" rel="nofollow">http://www.warwickhughes.com/papers/Hbeoz19.gif</a><br />
sums up changes in mean T and DTR for stations with population ranging from 1000 up to a million and more over Eastern Australia.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29437</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29437</guid>
		<description>Oh good that one went through! sorry I can&#039;t copy my PDF file - if anyone who wants it can give me their e mail I can e mail it though; 

As to the BOM paper I’ve picked this up from Warwick Hughes naming of the report (thanks Warwick)

http://ams.confex.com/ams/91Annual/webprogram/Paper184863.html
Wednesday, 26 January 2011
605/610 (Washington State Convention Center)
Harvey Stern, Bureau of Meteorology, Melbourne, Vic., Australia; and B. Campbell, M. Efron, J. Cornall-Reilly, and J. McBride 
The Australian Data Archive for Meteorology (ADAM) is used to compare trends in maximum temperature (MAXTEMP) at Sydney and Melbourne with those at other (less urbanised) Australian localities. 
By this means, the relative extent to which MAXTEMP increases in those cities can be attributed to urbanisation, the enhanced greenhouse effect, and other causes, is quantified. 
The influence of cities on overnight temperatures is well documented. However, their influence on daytime temperatures is less well documented. 
Sydney and Melbourne MAXTEMP data are compared with other ADAM data sets and are found to be increasing at a faster rate than elsewhere. 
For example, Sydney&#039;s MAXTEMP is increasing at a linear rate that is +0.065 deg C per decade faster than that of Newcastle, whilst Melbourne&#039;s MAXTEMP is increasing at a linear rate that is +0.050 deg C per decade faster than that of Ballarat. 
More generally, Sydney and Melbourne MAXTEMP data are compared with ADAM data sets for the 73 Australian localities (excluding Sydney and Melbourne) with at least 80 years of MAXTEMP data during the 100-year period 1910 to 2009 inclusive. 
MAXTEMPs at Sydney and Melbourne are found to be increasing, respectively, at rates 0.080 deg C per decade and 0.071 deg C per decade faster than the average temperature at the 73 sites. The probabilities of such large differences occurring by chance is &lt;&lt;0.1% in both cases. That the average MAXTEMPs in the two cities are rising faster than at more rural localities is therefore largely attributed to urbanisation. 
For both localities, annual MAXTEMP data are statistically modelled over various control periods using MAXTEMP data at surrounding non-urban stations as input. Thereby, sequences of non-urbanised MAXTEMP can be constructed for the hypothetical circumstance of the cities not being built. 
Synoptic stratification of daily data shows that a recent &quot;jump&quot; in the Melbourne series is due to buildings constructed immediately to the south of the site. 
In contrast to the current study, Torok&#039;s (1996) PhD work identified, and adjusted for, &quot;&#039; jumps in the time series due to non-climatic changes&#039; (and this consequently removed) ...urbanisation signals from the time series&quot;. Torok&#039;s adjustments have been applied to the derivation of the Bureau of Meteorology&#039;s high quality data sets (HQDS). 
The current study&#039;s approach (using ADAM data sets) has been to identify, and preserve, the urbanisation signals in the time series. 
As would be expected, MAXTEMP rising trends in the Melbourne and Sydney HQDS (with the urbanisation signals removed) are found to be slower than those in the corresponding ADAM data sets (without the urbanisation signal removed).

Hmmm...what that means in terms of adjustments who  knows</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh good that one went through! sorry I can&#8217;t copy my PDF file &#8211; if anyone who wants it can give me their e mail I can e mail it though; </p>
<p>As to the BOM paper I’ve picked this up from Warwick Hughes naming of the report (thanks Warwick)</p>
<p><a href="http://ams.confex.com/ams/91Annual/webprogram/Paper184863.html" rel="nofollow">http://ams.confex.com/ams/91Annual/webprogram/Paper184863.html</a><br />
Wednesday, 26 January 2011<br />
605/610 (Washington State Convention Center)<br />
Harvey Stern, Bureau of Meteorology, Melbourne, Vic., Australia; and B. Campbell, M. Efron, J. Cornall-Reilly, and J. McBride<br />
The Australian Data Archive for Meteorology (ADAM) is used to compare trends in maximum temperature (MAXTEMP) at Sydney and Melbourne with those at other (less urbanised) Australian localities.<br />
By this means, the relative extent to which MAXTEMP increases in those cities can be attributed to urbanisation, the enhanced greenhouse effect, and other causes, is quantified.<br />
The influence of cities on overnight temperatures is well documented. However, their influence on daytime temperatures is less well documented.<br />
Sydney and Melbourne MAXTEMP data are compared with other ADAM data sets and are found to be increasing at a faster rate than elsewhere.<br />
For example, Sydney&#8217;s MAXTEMP is increasing at a linear rate that is +0.065 deg C per decade faster than that of Newcastle, whilst Melbourne&#8217;s MAXTEMP is increasing at a linear rate that is +0.050 deg C per decade faster than that of Ballarat.<br />
More generally, Sydney and Melbourne MAXTEMP data are compared with ADAM data sets for the 73 Australian localities (excluding Sydney and Melbourne) with at least 80 years of MAXTEMP data during the 100-year period 1910 to 2009 inclusive.<br />
MAXTEMPs at Sydney and Melbourne are found to be increasing, respectively, at rates 0.080 deg C per decade and 0.071 deg C per decade faster than the average temperature at the 73 sites. The probabilities of such large differences occurring by chance is &lt;&lt;0.1% in both cases. That the average MAXTEMPs in the two cities are rising faster than at more rural localities is therefore largely attributed to urbanisation.<br />
For both localities, annual MAXTEMP data are statistically modelled over various control periods using MAXTEMP data at surrounding non-urban stations as input. Thereby, sequences of non-urbanised MAXTEMP can be constructed for the hypothetical circumstance of the cities not being built.<br />
Synoptic stratification of daily data shows that a recent &quot;jump&quot; in the Melbourne series is due to buildings constructed immediately to the south of the site.<br />
In contrast to the current study, Torok&#039;s (1996) PhD work identified, and adjusted for, &quot;&#039; jumps in the time series due to non-climatic changes&#039; (and this consequently removed) &#8230;urbanisation signals from the time series&quot;. Torok&#039;s adjustments have been applied to the derivation of the Bureau of Meteorology&#039;s high quality data sets (HQDS).<br />
The current study&#039;s approach (using ADAM data sets) has been to identify, and preserve, the urbanisation signals in the time series.<br />
As would be expected, MAXTEMP rising trends in the Melbourne and Sydney HQDS (with the urbanisation signals removed) are found to be slower than those in the corresponding ADAM data sets (without the urbanisation signal removed).</p>
<p>Hmmm&#8230;what that means in terms of adjustments who  knows</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29435</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Nov 2010 00:12:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29435</guid>
		<description>Australis I&#039;m having trouble posting and sent it to Richard Treadgold yesterday
He was I thought going to post it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Australis I&#8217;m having trouble posting and sent it to Richard Treadgold yesterday<br />
He was I thought going to post it</p>
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		<title>By: Australis</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/the-bom-discovers-uhi/comment-page-1/#comment-29422</link>
		<dc:creator>Australis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Nov 2010 22:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7484#comment-29422</guid>
		<description>Yes please, Val. It rejects the Rhoades &amp; Salinger (1992) paper for being too subjective, and develops its own subjective methodology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes please, Val. It rejects the Rhoades &amp; Salinger (1992) paper for being too subjective, and develops its own subjective methodology.</p>
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