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	<title>Comments on: Will sanity secure UK power supply</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29844</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Nov 2010 04:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29844</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a video of Soames addressing the Scottish Assembly here

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid640957304001?bctid=676265059001</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a video of Soames addressing the Scottish Assembly here</p>
<p><a href="http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid640957304001?bctid=676265059001" rel="nofollow">http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid640957304001?bctid=676265059001</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29221</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 06:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29221</guid>
		<description>&quot;environmental benefit&quot;

If I had to choose, I would rather live next to a 1000Mw coal fired station (equipped with scrubbers - even better) than within cooee of a 1MW wind turbine.

And apart from Andy&#039;s economic assessment I like this from Wikipedia:-

Wind power is non-dispatchable, meaning that for economic operation, all of the available output must be taken when it is available. Other resources, such as hydropower, and load management techniques must be used to match supply with demand. The intermittency of wind seldom creates problems when using wind power to supply a low proportion of total demand, but as the proportion rises, problems are created such as increased costs, the need to upgrade the grid, and a lowered ability to supplant conventional production.

i.e. better have a hydro, nuke, thermal or fossil fuel handy just in case the wind dont blow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;environmental benefit&#8221;</p>
<p>If I had to choose, I would rather live next to a 1000Mw coal fired station (equipped with scrubbers &#8211; even better) than within cooee of a 1MW wind turbine.</p>
<p>And apart from Andy&#8217;s economic assessment I like this from Wikipedia:-</p>
<p>Wind power is non-dispatchable, meaning that for economic operation, all of the available output must be taken when it is available. Other resources, such as hydropower, and load management techniques must be used to match supply with demand. The intermittency of wind seldom creates problems when using wind power to supply a low proportion of total demand, but as the proportion rises, problems are created such as increased costs, the need to upgrade the grid, and a lowered ability to supplant conventional production.</p>
<p>i.e. better have a hydro, nuke, thermal or fossil fuel handy just in case the wind dont blow.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29213</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29213</guid>
		<description>The economic benefit of renewables is in the form of the subsidy that goes to the operator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The economic benefit of renewables is in the form of the subsidy that goes to the operator.</p>
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		<title>By: Australis</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29212</link>
		<dc:creator>Australis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 03:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29212</guid>
		<description>Scottish Renewables: &quot;we need to focus on ... the economic and environmental benefit of renewables&quot;.

Does anybody know what these are?

The whole world knows that the &quot;economic benefit&quot; of wind, solar, tides, ethanol, etc is hugely negative. Hydro and geothermal are usually just as unaffordable. Where they are economic due to serendipitous locations, it is not because they use renewable fuel.

What is the environmental benefit of renewables? They might produce fewer net GHGs, but so does nuclear and &#039;clean coal&#039;. They use vast tracts of land, displace food, gobble scarce resources, kill birds, ruin landscapes, have dreadful energy conversion rates and last for only about 15 years.

Is &quot;renewable&quot; just a nice word that sounds &quot;sustainable&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scottish Renewables: &#8220;we need to focus on &#8230; the economic and environmental benefit of renewables&#8221;.</p>
<p>Does anybody know what these are?</p>
<p>The whole world knows that the &#8220;economic benefit&#8221; of wind, solar, tides, ethanol, etc is hugely negative. Hydro and geothermal are usually just as unaffordable. Where they are economic due to serendipitous locations, it is not because they use renewable fuel.</p>
<p>What is the environmental benefit of renewables? They might produce fewer net GHGs, but so does nuclear and &#8216;clean coal&#8217;. They use vast tracts of land, displace food, gobble scarce resources, kill birds, ruin landscapes, have dreadful energy conversion rates and last for only about 15 years.</p>
<p>Is &#8220;renewable&#8221; just a nice word that sounds &#8220;sustainable&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29206</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 02:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29206</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ron, just watched the first part

This is really worrying. Europe is starting to show signs of breakdown. I don&#039;t think these levels of debt can be sustained much longer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ron, just watched the first part</p>
<p>This is really worrying. Europe is starting to show signs of breakdown. I don&#8217;t think these levels of debt can be sustained much longer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29198</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 21:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29198</guid>
		<description>Wow, a must see :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gd6-zfeeaM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrASFrpi8zA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUrVB7bFdE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kotac3meVM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtayYoHoCY

(it might get taken down so worth grabbing while it&#039;s there. There are also good quality torrents on the box and uknova)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, a must see :</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gd6-zfeeaM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gd6-zfeeaM</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrASFrpi8zA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrASFrpi8zA</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUrVB7bFdE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thUrVB7bFdE</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kotac3meVM" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kotac3meVM</a><br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtayYoHoCY" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPtayYoHoCY</a></p>
<p>(it might get taken down so worth grabbing while it&#8217;s there. There are also good quality torrents on the box and uknova)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29168</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 04:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29168</guid>
		<description>Booker&#039;s column today:

&lt;b&gt;The climate change scare is dying, but do our MPs notice?&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;em&gt;The collapse of the warmist position on climate change has not impinged on politicians in Britain or Brussels, says Christopher Booker.&lt;/em&gt;


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8131383/The-climate-change-scare-is-dying-but-do-our-MPs-notice.html

Compare and contrast with The Guardian&#039;s position

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/14/climate-change-science-email-scandal



h/t 
EuRef
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/climategate-year-on.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Booker&#8217;s column today:</p>
<p><b>The climate change scare is dying, but do our MPs notice?</b></p>
<p><em>The collapse of the warmist position on climate change has not impinged on politicians in Britain or Brussels, says Christopher Booker.</em></p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8131383/The-climate-change-scare-is-dying-but-do-our-MPs-notice.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/8131383/The-climate-change-scare-is-dying-but-do-our-MPs-notice.html</a></p>
<p>Compare and contrast with The Guardian&#8217;s position</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/14/climate-change-science-email-scandal" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/nov/14/climate-change-science-email-scandal</a></p>
<p>h/t<br />
EuRef<br />
<a href="http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/climategate-year-on.html" rel="nofollow">http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/climategate-year-on.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29162</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29162</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see this UK Channel 4 documentary in NZ, but if anyone can put it on Youtube it looks worth a watch

&quot;Britain&#039; Trillion Pound Horror Story&quot;

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-trillion-pound-horror-story/4od#3139408</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t see this UK Channel 4 documentary in NZ, but if anyone can put it on Youtube it looks worth a watch</p>
<p>&#8220;Britain&#8217; Trillion Pound Horror Story&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-trillion-pound-horror-story/4od#3139408" rel="nofollow">http://www.channel4.com/programmes/britains-trillion-pound-horror-story/4od#3139408</a></p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29160</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29160</guid>
		<description>How to Turn Australia into a Basket Case
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

How many decades have the Greens been with us? So it’s a relief that The Age last subjects Victoria’s Greens to this scrutiny - and depressing that it’s the first from the paper I can remember: 


Closing down the carbon-spewing Hazelwood power station within four years would mean replacing its 1500 megawatts of electricity with renewable energy and encouraging consumers to be more energy efficient… 

But Jon Stanford, an energy economist at Insight Economics, said ...renewable energy was nowhere near ready to take on the burden carried by Hazelwood ... and even if it was it would increase power prices and put ‘’great pressure on the budgets of Victorian families’’. 

For example, the Greens would introduce a gross feed-in tariff for people with rooftop solar panels… This policy was recently abandoned by the NSW government because of a $2.5 billion blow-out in costs, which were eventually picked up by consumers…

.....
Sad isn&#039;t it; I think the human race has doomist tendencies
(is that a personality disorder)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to Turn Australia into a Basket Case<br />
<a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/</a></p>
<p>How many decades have the Greens been with us? So it’s a relief that The Age last subjects Victoria’s Greens to this scrutiny &#8211; and depressing that it’s the first from the paper I can remember: </p>
<p>Closing down the carbon-spewing Hazelwood power station within four years would mean replacing its 1500 megawatts of electricity with renewable energy and encouraging consumers to be more energy efficient… </p>
<p>But Jon Stanford, an energy economist at Insight Economics, said &#8230;renewable energy was nowhere near ready to take on the burden carried by Hazelwood &#8230; and even if it was it would increase power prices and put ‘’great pressure on the budgets of Victorian families’’. </p>
<p>For example, the Greens would introduce a gross feed-in tariff for people with rooftop solar panels… This policy was recently abandoned by the NSW government because of a $2.5 billion blow-out in costs, which were eventually picked up by consumers…</p>
<p>&#8230;..<br />
Sad isn&#8217;t it; I think the human race has doomist tendencies<br />
(is that a personality disorder)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/11/will-sanity-secure-uk-power-supply/comment-page-1/#comment-29158</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=7526#comment-29158</guid>
		<description>I should point out that I found this story via Richard North&#039;s blog here

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/answer-is-yes.html

He also has an interesting related story on the Western Isles scrapping their plans to build windfarms, because or the cost of the infrastructure required to connect the Isles to the mainland

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/let-them-dig-peat.html

We should also note that the Isle of Eigg - a recently convert to 100% renewables - had to switch to diesel generator backup when they ran out of power recently.
This is a taste of things to come, perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should point out that I found this story via Richard North&#8217;s blog here</p>
<p><a href="http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/answer-is-yes.html" rel="nofollow">http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/answer-is-yes.html</a></p>
<p>He also has an interesting related story on the Western Isles scrapping their plans to build windfarms, because or the cost of the infrastructure required to connect the Isles to the mainland</p>
<p><a href="http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/let-them-dig-peat.html" rel="nofollow">http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/11/let-them-dig-peat.html</a></p>
<p>We should also note that the Isle of Eigg &#8211; a recently convert to 100% renewables &#8211; had to switch to diesel generator backup when they ran out of power recently.<br />
This is a taste of things to come, perhaps?</p>
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