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	<title>Comments on: Snowfalls a thing of the past</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34446</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 01:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34446</guid>
		<description>Climate Change dispatch today has 8 botched environmental forecasts
http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/home/8395-eight-botched-environmental-forecasts?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+climatechangefraud%2FnkcO+%28Climate+Change+Dispatch+news%29
My favourite? No 4
4. &quot;Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide two degrees by 2010.&quot; Associated Press, May 15, 1989.

Status of prediction: According to NASA, global temperature has increased by about 0.7 degrees Fahrenheit since 1989. And U.S. temperature has increased even less over the same period.

The group that did the study, Atmospheric and Environmental Research Inc., said it could not comment in time for this story due to the holidays.

But Oppenheimer said that the difference between an increase of nearly one degree and an increase of two degrees was &quot;definitely within the margin of error... I would think the scientists themselves would be happy with that prediction.&quot;

Many scientists, especially in the 1970s, made an error in the other direction by predicting global freezing:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Climate Change dispatch today has 8 botched environmental forecasts<br />
<a href="http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/home/8395-eight-botched-environmental-forecasts?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=email&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+climatechangefraud%2FnkcO+%28Climate+Change+Dispatch+news%29" rel="nofollow">http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/home/8395-eight-botched-environmental-forecasts?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=email&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+climatechangefraud%2FnkcO+%28Climate+Change+Dispatch+news%29</a><br />
My favourite? No 4<br />
4. &#8220;Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide two degrees by 2010.&#8221; Associated Press, May 15, 1989.</p>
<p>Status of prediction: According to NASA, global temperature has increased by about 0.7 degrees Fahrenheit since 1989. And U.S. temperature has increased even less over the same period.</p>
<p>The group that did the study, Atmospheric and Environmental Research Inc., said it could not comment in time for this story due to the holidays.</p>
<p>But Oppenheimer said that the difference between an increase of nearly one degree and an increase of two degrees was &#8220;definitely within the margin of error&#8230; I would think the scientists themselves would be happy with that prediction.&#8221;</p>
<p>Many scientists, especially in the 1970s, made an error in the other direction by predicting global freezing:</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34423</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 22:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34423</guid>
		<description>Re Mike Lockwood, I saw this in Bishop Hill comments:-
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Here is Mike Lockwood in 2007. Note the &#039;we in the UK were likely to experience warmer, drier winters&#039;

&#039;Global Warming: Causes, Predictions and Ways to Reduce the Impact
25th October 2007
Scientists are now 90% certain that we are experiencing climate change associated with global warming - and have been for several decades. There is now no serious scientific doubt that man-made climate change is a reality. Over ten years ago predictions were made that we in the UK were likely to experience warmer, drier winters and wetter summers along with more &quot;extreme events&quot; such as heatwaves and torrential rain.
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So maybe he&#039;s seen the &quot;sun&quot; light. in 2010. I didn&#039;t know he had made that prediction in 2007.

An interesting development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Mike Lockwood, I saw this in Bishop Hill comments:-<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;<br />
Here is Mike Lockwood in 2007. Note the &#8216;we in the UK were likely to experience warmer, drier winters&#8217;</p>
<p>&#8216;Global Warming: Causes, Predictions and Ways to Reduce the Impact<br />
25th October 2007<br />
Scientists are now 90% certain that we are experiencing climate change associated with global warming &#8211; and have been for several decades. There is now no serious scientific doubt that man-made climate change is a reality. Over ten years ago predictions were made that we in the UK were likely to experience warmer, drier winters and wetter summers along with more &#8220;extreme events&#8221; such as heatwaves and torrential rain.<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;<br />
So maybe he&#8217;s seen the &#8220;sun&#8221; light. in 2010. I didn&#8217;t know he had made that prediction in 2007.</p>
<p>An interesting development.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34409</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34409</guid>
		<description>&quot;there’s only 0.1 C warming from 1963-2009 and the local NZ warming rate per century is only 0.22 C (UHI?).&quot;

That was after applying a 15 year moving average to the anomaly resulting from subtraction of the 7SS from the general warming trend (starting at 1850), so a bit misleading here.

Once you plot that anomaly (data at “December 20, 2010″), the picture becomes crystal clear. Makes NZCSET v NIWA more interesting too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;there’s only 0.1 C warming from 1963-2009 and the local NZ warming rate per century is only 0.22 C (UHI?).&#8221;</p>
<p>That was after applying a 15 year moving average to the anomaly resulting from subtraction of the 7SS from the general warming trend (starting at 1850), so a bit misleading here.</p>
<p>Once you plot that anomaly (data at “December 20, 2010″), the picture becomes crystal clear. Makes NZCSET v NIWA more interesting too.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34408</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 20:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34408</guid>
		<description>In defense of Mike Lockwood, I think you&#039;ve got him wrong. Remember he&#039;s on &quot;The List&quot; and FWIW, I agree with him.

I&#039;ve just finished a &quot;de-trending&quot; exercise on the 7SS NZTR (See NZ ETS: Analytic Negligence&quot; and &quot;December 20, 2010&quot;) where I managed to establish the general global warming trend since 1850 (y = 0.5x + 13.6 i.e.the &quot;normal&quot; climate). Approx 38% of the normal rise is attributable to solar variability and 42% to residual non-solar climatological causes. Once that rise is subtracted from the 7SS, there&#039;s only 0.1 C warming from 1963-2009 and the local NZ warming rate per century is only 0.22 C (UHI?).

I&#039;ve also just finished reading &quot;New Little Ice Age Instead of Global Warming?&quot; by Dr. Theodor Landscheidt that contrary to what the title suggests, clearly shows how the climate varies above (global warming) and below ( Maunder, Dalton Minimum) a baseline but what is the baseline?

I&#039;m now convinced that the practice of creating a moving 30 year flat average baseline (normal climate) from which to calculate temperature anomalies is of no value to describe climate and that &quot;normal&quot; is the normal global warming trend - whatever that is.

Remember too, that it was Mike Lockwood along with Harrison, Woollings and Solanki that came out last year with a possible explanation last year when the NH was snowed under.

See &quot;Are cold winters in Europe associated with low solar activity?&quot;

http://www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/j293.pdf

These guys are solar experts not warmists (I didn&#039;t watch the vid BTW, so may be talking rubbish).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In defense of Mike Lockwood, I think you&#8217;ve got him wrong. Remember he&#8217;s on &#8220;The List&#8221; and FWIW, I agree with him.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just finished a &#8220;de-trending&#8221; exercise on the 7SS NZTR (See NZ ETS: Analytic Negligence&#8221; and &#8220;December 20, 2010&#8243;) where I managed to establish the general global warming trend since 1850 (y = 0.5x + 13.6 i.e.the &#8220;normal&#8221; climate). Approx 38% of the normal rise is attributable to solar variability and 42% to residual non-solar climatological causes. Once that rise is subtracted from the 7SS, there&#8217;s only 0.1 C warming from 1963-2009 and the local NZ warming rate per century is only 0.22 C (UHI?).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also just finished reading &#8220;New Little Ice Age Instead of Global Warming?&#8221; by Dr. Theodor Landscheidt that contrary to what the title suggests, clearly shows how the climate varies above (global warming) and below ( Maunder, Dalton Minimum) a baseline but what is the baseline?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m now convinced that the practice of creating a moving 30 year flat average baseline (normal climate) from which to calculate temperature anomalies is of no value to describe climate and that &#8220;normal&#8221; is the normal global warming trend &#8211; whatever that is.</p>
<p>Remember too, that it was Mike Lockwood along with Harrison, Woollings and Solanki that came out last year with a possible explanation last year when the NH was snowed under.</p>
<p>See &#8220;Are cold winters in Europe associated with low solar activity?&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/j293.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.mps.mpg.de/dokumente/publikationen/solanki/j293.pdf</a></p>
<p>These guys are solar experts not warmists (I didn&#8217;t watch the vid BTW, so may be talking rubbish).</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34403</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 19:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34403</guid>
		<description>The Mail is reporting that the UK winter could be the coldest for 300 years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342515/UK-snow-big-freeze-weather-means-winter-set-coldest-300-YEARS.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mail is reporting that the UK winter could be the coldest for 300 years:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342515/UK-snow-big-freeze-weather-means-winter-set-coldest-300-YEARS.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1342515/UK-snow-big-freeze-weather-means-winter-set-coldest-300-YEARS.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34402</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 19:48:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34402</guid>
		<description>Prof Mike Lockwood says that we could have one or two centuries of freezing winters, even in a warming world.

http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2010/12/30/a-hundred-years-of-freezing.html

Nice work if you can get it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof Mike Lockwood says that we could have one or two centuries of freezing winters, even in a warming world.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2010/12/30/a-hundred-years-of-freezing.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2010/12/30/a-hundred-years-of-freezing.html</a></p>
<p>Nice work if you can get it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2010/12/snowfalls-a-thing-of-the-past/comment-page-1/#comment-34400</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 19:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8125#comment-34400</guid>
		<description>However, the UK Met Office are still sticking to their line that cold winters have a 1/20 probability of occurring. So, three cold winters back to back, as the UK has had, occurs with a probability of 1/8000

Bets on for next winter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, the UK Met Office are still sticking to their line that cold winters have a 1/20 probability of occurring. So, three cold winters back to back, as the UK has had, occurs with a probability of 1/8000</p>
<p>Bets on for next winter?</p>
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