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	<title>Comments on: Figures he doesn&#8217;t believe</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Anthropogenic Global Cooling</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-38936</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthropogenic Global Cooling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 05:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-38936</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t visit Ken&#039;s blog under any circumstances. If he doesn&#039;t agree with you, or he doesn&#039;t like what you say, he&#039;ll release your personal details or any other dirt he thinks he can find in an effort to shut you up. No wonder nobody wants to go there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t visit Ken&#8217;s blog under any circumstances. If he doesn&#8217;t agree with you, or he doesn&#8217;t like what you say, he&#8217;ll release your personal details or any other dirt he thinks he can find in an effort to shut you up. No wonder nobody wants to go there.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-38903</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 00:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-38903</guid>
		<description>I have included reference to this blog in my recent post &lt;a href=&quot;http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/comparing-blog-visit-statistics/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Comparing blog visit statistics&lt;/a&gt;.

However, I kept the name of this blog anonymous to avoid Richard Treadgold&#039;s obvious embarrassment.

However, if anyone wishes to debate my points they are welcome to contribute to the comments on my post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have included reference to this blog in my recent post <a href="http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2011/01/26/comparing-blog-visit-statistics/" rel="nofollow">Comparing blog visit statistics</a>.</p>
<p>However, I kept the name of this blog anonymous to avoid Richard Treadgold&#8217;s obvious embarrassment.</p>
<p>However, if anyone wishes to debate my points they are welcome to contribute to the comments on my post.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-36718</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Jan 2011 20:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-36718</guid>
		<description>Well, Treadgold is not going to answer my question about which programme he is using to get his data on his blog activity. I guess as he claims he doesn&#039;t know what the figures mean he probably also doesn&#039;t know the programme being used.

My guess is it is something like Webalizer. (The screenshots in his post are very similar). This is used to extract data from the serve access and usage log files.

There are a number of problems with this approach. It requires intelligent use to avoid over counting because of the way a page or visit may be interpreted. It can for example include each separate image file on a page as a visit if not careful. (See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/simpleton.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Simpletons Guide to Web Server Analysis&lt;/a&gt;).

Wikipedia also&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webalizer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; describes  problems&lt;/a&gt; with the results from Webalizer (and this should apply to similar programmes):

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Generated statistics do not differentiate between human visitors and robots. As a result all reported metrics are higher than those due to people alone. Many webmasters claim that webalizer produces highly unrealistic figures of visits, which are sometimes 200 to 900% higher than the data produced by javascript based web statistics such as &quot;Google Analytics&quot; or &quot;StatCounter&quot;.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Treadgolds promotion of his blog on the basis of such a programme may just be naivety on his part. However, if he is at interested in comparing his blog traffic with that of other NZ blogs (and after all he is the one raising the issue) then he should install a proper stat counter like &quot;statcounter&quot; or &quot;sitemeter&#039;. If he allows public access (as 230 other NZ blogs do) he can then see his blog traffic ranked objectively and honestly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Treadgold is not going to answer my question about which programme he is using to get his data on his blog activity. I guess as he claims he doesn&#8217;t know what the figures mean he probably also doesn&#8217;t know the programme being used.</p>
<p>My guess is it is something like Webalizer. (The screenshots in his post are very similar). This is used to extract data from the serve access and usage log files.</p>
<p>There are a number of problems with this approach. It requires intelligent use to avoid over counting because of the way a page or visit may be interpreted. It can for example include each separate image file on a page as a visit if not careful. (See <a href="http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/simpleton.html" rel="nofollow">Simpletons Guide to Web Server Analysis</a>).</p>
<p>Wikipedia also<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webalizer" rel="nofollow"> describes  problems</a> with the results from Webalizer (and this should apply to similar programmes):</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Generated statistics do not differentiate between human visitors and robots. As a result all reported metrics are higher than those due to people alone. Many webmasters claim that webalizer produces highly unrealistic figures of visits, which are sometimes 200 to 900% higher than the data produced by javascript based web statistics such as &#8220;Google Analytics&#8221; or &#8220;StatCounter&#8221;.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>Treadgolds promotion of his blog on the basis of such a programme may just be naivety on his part. However, if he is at interested in comparing his blog traffic with that of other NZ blogs (and after all he is the one raising the issue) then he should install a proper stat counter like &#8220;statcounter&#8221; or &#8220;sitemeter&#8217;. If he allows public access (as 230 other NZ blogs do) he can then see his blog traffic ranked objectively and honestly.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce of Newcastle</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-36397</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce of Newcastle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 21:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-36397</guid>
		<description>I think a fair number of us Aussies are interested in what is going on in NZ, not least that our PM has delusions of ETS&#039;s too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a fair number of us Aussies are interested in what is going on in NZ, not least that our PM has delusions of ETS&#8217;s too.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthropogenic Global Cooling</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-36021</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthropogenic Global Cooling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-36021</guid>
		<description>Ken&#039;s just jealous that his blog doesn&#039;t have the traffic that this one does. What Ken really needs to ask himself is why. Perhaps it&#039;s because Ken releases the personal details of those who ask for evidence of AGW, first as a threat, and then as revenge when he&#039;s lost the debate (see &#039;Painted into a Corner&#039;) - is it such a crime to ask for evidence. The funny thing is that he got the wrong person with the same name. No wonder his blog&#039;s visitor numbers lag behind Climate Conversation, perhaps they&#039;re afraid that he&#039;ll try and leak their bank account details next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken&#8217;s just jealous that his blog doesn&#8217;t have the traffic that this one does. What Ken really needs to ask himself is why. Perhaps it&#8217;s because Ken releases the personal details of those who ask for evidence of AGW, first as a threat, and then as revenge when he&#8217;s lost the debate (see &#8216;Painted into a Corner&#8217;) &#8211; is it such a crime to ask for evidence. The funny thing is that he got the wrong person with the same name. No wonder his blog&#8217;s visitor numbers lag behind Climate Conversation, perhaps they&#8217;re afraid that he&#8217;ll try and leak their bank account details next.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob D</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-36012</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:34:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-36012</guid>
		<description>Ken - It&#039;s not Richard&#039;s claim, it&#039;s &lt;i&gt;your&lt;/i&gt; claim.  Richard merely made a passing comment about his daily page views recently being 2.5 times higher than the figure &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; mentioned of 1400 (ie: 3500).  You didn&#039;t believe him, and you demanded proof of the page view stats.  You insinuated he was lying.  You offered (somewhat sarcastically) to put up a post on OP if Richard complied - it was your offer, not Richard&#039;s request.  He didn&#039;t claim to be NZ&#039;s 4th largest site, you said that was what his stats meant:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Currently Hot Topic is ranked 7 th at 1515 page views/day. Your claim would rank your blog at 4th above SciBlogs and “here comes the Sun.”

If that is so you should shout it from the roof tops! It would be great publicity for your cause – a higher rank than the leading scientific blogs in the country!!

I actually don’t believe you – you have made a mistake (perhaps monthly page views”?) or it is just bravado. But it is extremely easy for you to confirm.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then later on you said this:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;So again you make a claim that can’t be substantiated …[snip] Even when you would get great publicity for your blog.

What about sharing the average daily visit numbers for the last week?

No?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And again later:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;I repeat – climate conversation blog doesn’t even rank.

Best explanation – Treadgold has been telling porkies again.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course, based on Richard&#039;s stats, it may make more sense if he allows you to post here instead, it&#039;ll probably reach a larger audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken &#8211; It&#8217;s not Richard&#8217;s claim, it&#8217;s <i>your</i> claim.  Richard merely made a passing comment about his daily page views recently being 2.5 times higher than the figure <i>you</i> mentioned of 1400 (ie: 3500).  You didn&#8217;t believe him, and you demanded proof of the page view stats.  You insinuated he was lying.  You offered (somewhat sarcastically) to put up a post on OP if Richard complied &#8211; it was your offer, not Richard&#8217;s request.  He didn&#8217;t claim to be NZ&#8217;s 4th largest site, you said that was what his stats meant:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>Currently Hot Topic is ranked 7 th at 1515 page views/day. Your claim would rank your blog at 4th above SciBlogs and “here comes the Sun.”</p>
<p>If that is so you should shout it from the roof tops! It would be great publicity for your cause – a higher rank than the leading scientific blogs in the country!!</p>
<p>I actually don’t believe you – you have made a mistake (perhaps monthly page views”?) or it is just bravado. But it is extremely easy for you to confirm.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Then later on you said this:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>So again you make a claim that can’t be substantiated …[snip] Even when you would get great publicity for your blog.</p>
<p>What about sharing the average daily visit numbers for the last week?</p>
<p>No?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>And again later:</p>
<blockquote><p><i>I repeat – climate conversation blog doesn’t even rank.</p>
<p>Best explanation – Treadgold has been telling porkies again.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Of course, based on Richard&#8217;s stats, it may make more sense if he allows you to post here instead, it&#8217;ll probably reach a larger audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander K</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-35938</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 15:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-35938</guid>
		<description>I found Climate Conversation NZ listed on WUWT&#039;s blogroll - I don&#039;t comment much, but generally like the style, content and tone.  I had look at Hot Topic a couple of months ago and thought it a waste of bandwidth.  For me, the blog editor spends too much time denigrating those he doesn&#039;t agree with, rather than getting on with posting interesting stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Climate Conversation NZ listed on WUWT&#8217;s blogroll &#8211; I don&#8217;t comment much, but generally like the style, content and tone.  I had look at Hot Topic a couple of months ago and thought it a waste of bandwidth.  For me, the blog editor spends too much time denigrating those he doesn&#8217;t agree with, rather than getting on with posting interesting stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-35877</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-35877</guid>
		<description>Just as a matter of interest why is this so important to Ken? If I had were a blog host it would be the last thing on my mind!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just as a matter of interest why is this so important to Ken? If I had were a blog host it would be the last thing on my mind!</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-35867</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-35867</guid>
		<description>Bob D I am quite prepared to write a blog post on Richard Treadgolds conviction that he ranks 4th in NZ . I just need a bit more information.

I have asked Richard what programme he is using for the data - obviously I would like to find out what the data means. Richard himself says:

&quot;What the figures mean, I don’t know&quot;

He obviously needs help.

So Richard - what about it? What is the programme? What us the file? I am prepared to research it a bit and write something on your claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob D I am quite prepared to write a blog post on Richard Treadgolds conviction that he ranks 4th in NZ . I just need a bit more information.</p>
<p>I have asked Richard what programme he is using for the data &#8211; obviously I would like to find out what the data means. Richard himself says:</p>
<p>&#8220;What the figures mean, I don’t know&#8221;</p>
<p>He obviously needs help.</p>
<p>So Richard &#8211; what about it? What is the programme? What us the file? I am prepared to research it a bit and write something on your claims.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/figures-he-doesnt-believe/comment-page-1/#comment-35866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:12:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8271#comment-35866</guid>
		<description>Andy, yes I would like to see Treadgolds blog listed in the NZ Rankings. I would like to see all serious NZ blogs listed - especially any concerned about ranking as comments here indicate. I keep suggesting this to bloggers - it requires very little effort for them or me.

Yes it possibly helps blogs get more traffic - I notice every time I do a monthly ranking people do follow many of the links. I guess the 7day average spreadsheet also helps but I have no access the google doc traffic.

If the listing also inspires bloggers to improve their blogs and attract more traffic - good on them.

More realistically the rankings give each blogger an indication of how they compare with others. They can draw their own conclusions. But the more bloggers on the list the more useful it is.

Jon - you are mistaken . The figure you quote is for moonshine. Conversations is not even listed on Alexa. This is an indication of low traffic and short history. However , SciBlogs is younger than conversations and is listed. So low traffic us the obvious problem.

Andy, one can add one&#039;s blog to Technorati. I suggest Richard Treadgold dies this himself. But usually any blog with reasonable traffic is added automatically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, yes I would like to see Treadgolds blog listed in the NZ Rankings. I would like to see all serious NZ blogs listed &#8211; especially any concerned about ranking as comments here indicate. I keep suggesting this to bloggers &#8211; it requires very little effort for them or me.</p>
<p>Yes it possibly helps blogs get more traffic &#8211; I notice every time I do a monthly ranking people do follow many of the links. I guess the 7day average spreadsheet also helps but I have no access the google doc traffic.</p>
<p>If the listing also inspires bloggers to improve their blogs and attract more traffic &#8211; good on them.</p>
<p>More realistically the rankings give each blogger an indication of how they compare with others. They can draw their own conclusions. But the more bloggers on the list the more useful it is.</p>
<p>Jon &#8211; you are mistaken . The figure you quote is for moonshine. Conversations is not even listed on Alexa. This is an indication of low traffic and short history. However , SciBlogs is younger than conversations and is listed. So low traffic us the obvious problem.</p>
<p>Andy, one can add one&#8217;s blog to Technorati. I suggest Richard Treadgold dies this himself. But usually any blog with reasonable traffic is added automatically.</p>
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