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	<title>Comments on: UN head calls off sky-dragon slaying</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 20 May 2012 09:44:25 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Clarence</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39898</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Feb 2011 03:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39898</guid>
		<description>Ban-Ki Moon&#039;s senior aide advised the Guardian that there was no longer any expectation of a global agreement within the next few years, and it was clear that there would be no extension of the Kyoto Protocol.

Meantime, President Obama completed his entire State of the Union speech without once mentioning the &quot;C&quot; word. And his Climate Czar, Carole Browning, has resigned - without being replaced.

India now says at least 44% of warming is caused by solar activity. And all European Carbon markets have been suspended indefinitely.

What a week!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ban-Ki Moon&#8217;s senior aide advised the Guardian that there was no longer any expectation of a global agreement within the next few years, and it was clear that there would be no extension of the Kyoto Protocol.</p>
<p>Meantime, President Obama completed his entire State of the Union speech without once mentioning the &#8220;C&#8221; word. And his Climate Czar, Carole Browning, has resigned &#8211; without being replaced.</p>
<p>India now says at least 44% of warming is caused by solar activity. And all European Carbon markets have been suspended indefinitely.</p>
<p>What a week!</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39365</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 02:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39365</guid>
		<description>He does make an each way bet in his forecasts by projecting the 60 year cycle but without the underlying quadratic. This makes for a deep minimum around 2030 whereas temp levels with the underlying trend included stay relatively plateaued until 2035 then rise markedly by about 1.2C by 2060.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He does make an each way bet in his forecasts by projecting the 60 year cycle but without the underlying quadratic. This makes for a deep minimum around 2030 whereas temp levels with the underlying trend included stay relatively plateaued until 2035 then rise markedly by about 1.2C by 2060.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39363</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 01:42:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39363</guid>
		<description>Scafetta doesn&#039;t actually provide any basis for a continuation of the underlying quadratic trend, he just says &quot;if&quot; the 60 year cycle repeats as it did since 1650, the successive 60 year cycles, 1880-1940, 1940-2000 can be used to make a forecast to 2060.

I&#039;ll be keeping an eye out for astronomical/celestial support for a continuation of what so many are predicting (including geologists) merely by projecting a trend because although I have previously subscribed to that method, I&#039;m no longer convinced.

The problem with the science is that although the astronomical correlations are clear, the cause mechanism is not. Ironic really because the celestial hypothesis is much like AGW but with better correlations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scafetta doesn&#8217;t actually provide any basis for a continuation of the underlying quadratic trend, he just says &#8220;if&#8221; the 60 year cycle repeats as it did since 1650, the successive 60 year cycles, 1880-1940, 1940-2000 can be used to make a forecast to 2060.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll be keeping an eye out for astronomical/celestial support for a continuation of what so many are predicting (including geologists) merely by projecting a trend because although I have previously subscribed to that method, I&#8217;m no longer convinced.</p>
<p>The problem with the science is that although the astronomical correlations are clear, the cause mechanism is not. Ironic really because the celestial hypothesis is much like AGW but with better correlations.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39362</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 01:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39362</guid>
		<description>Andy, advising of a refutation of our writing could never be off-topic! Thanks.
Feel free to comment over there, everyone!
I&#039;ll shortly answer the guts of his arguments here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy, advising of a refutation of our writing could never be off-topic! Thanks.<br />
Feel free to comment over there, everyone!<br />
I&#8217;ll shortly answer the guts of his arguments here.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39353</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39353</guid>
		<description>In the case of the Easterbrook issue, it must be remembered that comparing a paleo temp reconstruction with meteorological temps is an apples and oranges exercise and that the figures I came up with were using GRs reasoning but only with the reconstruction data. I&#039;m in communication with GR (a little reluctantly) in the HT &quot;Core blimey, Easterbrook’s at it again&quot; comments in regard to this.

In the case of the underlying quadratic trend of the the temperature record, that trend can be clearly seen in the Scafetta paper up to the present but he assumes a continuation of the quadratic trend in his forecasts. I haven&#039;t got around to identifying his justification for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the case of the Easterbrook issue, it must be remembered that comparing a paleo temp reconstruction with meteorological temps is an apples and oranges exercise and that the figures I came up with were using GRs reasoning but only with the reconstruction data. I&#8217;m in communication with GR (a little reluctantly) in the HT &#8220;Core blimey, Easterbrook’s at it again&#8221; comments in regard to this.</p>
<p>In the case of the underlying quadratic trend of the the temperature record, that trend can be clearly seen in the Scafetta paper up to the present but he assumes a continuation of the quadratic trend in his forecasts. I haven&#8217;t got around to identifying his justification for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39352</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39352</guid>
		<description>One of the interesting points in the Horizon doco was the blind acceptance by Sir Paul Nurse of &quot;Mike&#039;s Nature Trick to Hide the Decline&quot; (aka the Divergence Problem)

On &lt;a href=&quot;http://slsingh.posterous.com/41313406&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this interesting thread&lt;/a&gt; on Simon Singh&#039;s blog (recently taking pot shots at Delingpole), Bishop Hill pops up in the comments several times to critique this (not surprising since he is the author of the Hockey Stick Illusion).

Even more interesting to me is that Paul Dennis of UEA also comments, agreeing with BH. Dennis holds a senior position in the School of Environmental Sciences at UEA, though not in the CRU.

There are also discussions regarding positive feedbacks and cloud albedo.
You really get the impression that guys like Singh (I did really enjoy his book Fermat&#039;s Last Theorem) haven&#039;t really looked at the science behind AGW at all.

http://slsingh.posterous.com/41313406</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the interesting points in the Horizon doco was the blind acceptance by Sir Paul Nurse of &#8220;Mike&#8217;s Nature Trick to Hide the Decline&#8221; (aka the Divergence Problem)</p>
<p>On <a href="http://slsingh.posterous.com/41313406" rel="nofollow">this interesting thread</a> on Simon Singh&#8217;s blog (recently taking pot shots at Delingpole), Bishop Hill pops up in the comments several times to critique this (not surprising since he is the author of the Hockey Stick Illusion).</p>
<p>Even more interesting to me is that Paul Dennis of UEA also comments, agreeing with BH. Dennis holds a senior position in the School of Environmental Sciences at UEA, though not in the CRU.</p>
<p>There are also discussions regarding positive feedbacks and cloud albedo.<br />
You really get the impression that guys like Singh (I did really enjoy his book Fermat&#8217;s Last Theorem) haven&#8217;t really looked at the science behind AGW at all.</p>
<p><a href="http://slsingh.posterous.com/41313406" rel="nofollow">http://slsingh.posterous.com/41313406</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39350</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 00:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39350</guid>
		<description>O/T again, sorry, but Matt Flaherty (commenting here recently) has written a piece fairly aimed at you, Richard T

http://flay.jellybee.co.uk/2011/01/dealing-with-denialists-delingpole-part.html\</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O/T again, sorry, but Matt Flaherty (commenting here recently) has written a piece fairly aimed at you, Richard T</p>
<p><a href="http://flay.jellybee.co.uk/2011/01/dealing-with-denialists-delingpole-part.html" rel="nofollow">http://flay.jellybee.co.uk/2011/01/dealing-with-denialists-delingpole-part.html</a>\</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39347</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 23:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39347</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t know this. Thank you for the well-written overview, Richard. Your concluding sentence is pithy and wise; it deserves a wide audience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t know this. Thank you for the well-written overview, Richard. Your concluding sentence is pithy and wise; it deserves a wide audience.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39344</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39344</guid>
		<description>The Met Office explanation for those &quot;adjustments&quot; will make make a good bookend for NIWA&#039;s adjustment explanations but will have greater consequences I&#039;m think..

The problem that the alarmists have that has been pointed out elsewhere is that they can extract additional warming from the metrics by nefarious means for only so long and inevitably they will discover for themselves the principle of diminishing returns. That will be exacerbated by any cool phase from now on but they might get lucky around 2035 if projection of the underlying quadratic holds true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Met Office explanation for those &#8220;adjustments&#8221; will make make a good bookend for NIWA&#8217;s adjustment explanations but will have greater consequences I&#8217;m think..</p>
<p>The problem that the alarmists have that has been pointed out elsewhere is that they can extract additional warming from the metrics by nefarious means for only so long and inevitably they will discover for themselves the principle of diminishing returns. That will be exacerbated by any cool phase from now on but they might get lucky around 2035 if projection of the underlying quadratic holds true.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/01/un-head-calls-off-sky-dragon-slaying/comment-page-1/#comment-39340</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=8609#comment-39340</guid>
		<description>It seems to be an alarmist PR tactic to studiously avoid detail and exactitude in preference for bland vagueness when better explanations are staring them in the face. This allows non-specialists to make outrageous claims in a field outside their specialty while maintaining an aura of credibility as Sir Paul Nurse has done. Our NZ equivalent is Sir Peter Gluckman and the narrative is similar..

I have more respect for those such as Gandalf in the NZ Herald or even Gareth Renowden that at least make an attempt to introduce from time to time an element of detail with a modicum of scientific support. Their problem though is that they always fall short of doing the complete analysis. 

Gandalf is now touting the underlying quadratic in the temperature trend as evidence of the CO2/temp correlation which is compelling but that does not hold up prior to about 1850 and doesn&#039;t explain the more recent anthropogenic emissions.

Gareth Renowden rightly took Don Easterbrook to task over the present value of a graph in an effort to shoot down Don&#039;s assertion that there were over 9000 years warmer than present over the last 10,000 years. What Gareth conveniently omitted was that using his own reasoning and making a correction to better represent the present, there were still more than 5790 years warmer than present over the last 10,000 years.

They are all seeing the &quot;long-term&quot; trend in atmospheric/ocean temperature and ocean heat content (thanks to Gavin Schmidt) but they cannot bring themselves to address recent points-of-inflexion in those same metrics. We are susceptible to  to confirmation bias but that does not mean it has to be a normal mode of operation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to be an alarmist PR tactic to studiously avoid detail and exactitude in preference for bland vagueness when better explanations are staring them in the face. This allows non-specialists to make outrageous claims in a field outside their specialty while maintaining an aura of credibility as Sir Paul Nurse has done. Our NZ equivalent is Sir Peter Gluckman and the narrative is similar..</p>
<p>I have more respect for those such as Gandalf in the NZ Herald or even Gareth Renowden that at least make an attempt to introduce from time to time an element of detail with a modicum of scientific support. Their problem though is that they always fall short of doing the complete analysis. </p>
<p>Gandalf is now touting the underlying quadratic in the temperature trend as evidence of the CO2/temp correlation which is compelling but that does not hold up prior to about 1850 and doesn&#8217;t explain the more recent anthropogenic emissions.</p>
<p>Gareth Renowden rightly took Don Easterbrook to task over the present value of a graph in an effort to shoot down Don&#8217;s assertion that there were over 9000 years warmer than present over the last 10,000 years. What Gareth conveniently omitted was that using his own reasoning and making a correction to better represent the present, there were still more than 5790 years warmer than present over the last 10,000 years.</p>
<p>They are all seeing the &#8220;long-term&#8221; trend in atmospheric/ocean temperature and ocean heat content (thanks to Gavin Schmidt) but they cannot bring themselves to address recent points-of-inflexion in those same metrics. We are susceptible to  to confirmation bias but that does not mean it has to be a normal mode of operation.</p>
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