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	<title>Comments on: de Freitas on solid ground</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63761</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jul 2011 20:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63761</guid>
		<description>Donna Laframboise brings up this tawdry topic in her well-researched piece on the NZ scene here:

http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011/07/25/prof-condemned-for-not-teaching-ipcc-reports/

This is suberb. It really skewers our &quot;scientists&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Donna Laframboise brings up this tawdry topic in her well-researched piece on the NZ scene here:</p>
<p><a href="http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011/07/25/prof-condemned-for-not-teaching-ipcc-reports/" rel="nofollow">http://nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011/07/25/prof-condemned-for-not-teaching-ipcc-reports/</a></p>
<p>This is suberb. It really skewers our &#8220;scientists&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63624</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 22:57:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63624</guid>
		<description>Weak and a desperate scramble to divert debate from the inconvenient truth. Trenberth, Hunter, Manning et al are all jumping on the &quot;extreme weather&quot; bandwagon citing water vapour levels at near surface levels that are increasing - so what? WV levels at 1000 hPa don&#039;t matter a zot in terms of the ACO2 induced warming of AGW, that&#039;s supposed to happen at 300 hPa but instead of WV and temperature increasing there, both are decreasing.

Hunter and Manning are both singing from the same song sheet, they&#039;ve given up on AGW relevant science (too hard) and now rely on anecdote and the operating strategies of Euro insurance companies and banks.

When they abandon scientific rigour, they don&#039;t deserve to be addressed as &quot;Dr&quot; or &quot;Prof&quot; IMHO because they are not adopting a doctoral or professorial approach, they&#039;re just ordinary Joe Schmo&#039;s saying &quot;look! bad weather&quot; and &quot;hey! banks and insurance companies are looking to profit from it&quot; so &quot;man-made climate change must be real&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Weak and a desperate scramble to divert debate from the inconvenient truth. Trenberth, Hunter, Manning et al are all jumping on the &#8220;extreme weather&#8221; bandwagon citing water vapour levels at near surface levels that are increasing &#8211; so what? WV levels at 1000 hPa don&#8217;t matter a zot in terms of the ACO2 induced warming of AGW, that&#8217;s supposed to happen at 300 hPa but instead of WV and temperature increasing there, both are decreasing.</p>
<p>Hunter and Manning are both singing from the same song sheet, they&#8217;ve given up on AGW relevant science (too hard) and now rely on anecdote and the operating strategies of Euro insurance companies and banks.</p>
<p>When they abandon scientific rigour, they don&#8217;t deserve to be addressed as &#8220;Dr&#8221; or &#8220;Prof&#8221; IMHO because they are not adopting a doctoral or professorial approach, they&#8217;re just ordinary Joe Schmo&#8217;s saying &#8220;look! bad weather&#8221; and &#8220;hey! banks and insurance companies are looking to profit from it&#8221; so &#8220;man-made climate change must be real&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63617</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 21:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63617</guid>
		<description>Keith Hunter&#039;s arguments seem pretty weak. He even quotes Munich Re, a company that &lt;em&gt;has a financial interest in climate alarmism&lt;/em&gt; to back up his claims</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith Hunter&#8217;s arguments seem pretty weak. He even quotes Munich Re, a company that <em>has a financial interest in climate alarmism</em> to back up his claims</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63575</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2011 07:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63575</guid>
		<description>Chris de Freitas and Keith Hunter: The great climate debate

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/science/news/article.cfm?c_id=82&amp;objectid=10740806

Comments are open.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris de Freitas and Keith Hunter: The great climate debate</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/science/news/article.cfm?c_id=82&#038;objectid=10740806" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/science/news/article.cfm?c_id=82&#038;objectid=10740806</a></p>
<p>Comments are open.</p>
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		<title>By: Antipodean59</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63500</link>
		<dc:creator>Antipodean59</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jul 2011 04:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63500</guid>
		<description>Anthropogenic Global Cooling says, Now they just resort to spouting any old rubbish in support of AGW, slander &amp; misrepresent de Freitas, and deny comments to anyone wanting to counter their BS claims. - Great point. In fact the BBC Trust recommend ignoring the skeptics as official policy as Melanie Phillips points out http://tinyurl.com/42toztf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anthropogenic Global Cooling says, Now they just resort to spouting any old rubbish in support of AGW, slander &amp; misrepresent de Freitas, and deny comments to anyone wanting to counter their BS claims. &#8211; Great point. In fact the BBC Trust recommend ignoring the skeptics as official policy as Melanie Phillips points out <a href="http://tinyurl.com/42toztf" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/42toztf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63308</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63308</guid>
		<description>And the paper (&quot;CR fiasco&quot; apparently) that Wigley and the &quot;greenhouse community&quot; were trying to quash &quot;under De Freitas&#039;s editorship&quot;?

&lt;strong&gt; Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?&lt;/strong&gt;

Shaviv and Veizer, 2003

http://www.juniata.edu/projects/oceans/GL111/celestialdriverofclimate.pdf

ABSTRACT
Atmospheric levels of CO2 are commonly assumed to be a main driver of
global climate. &lt;strong&gt;Independent empirical evidence suggests that the galactic cosmic ray flux (CRF) is linked to climate variability&lt;/strong&gt;. Both drivers are presently discussed in the context of daily to millennial variations, although they should also operate over geological time scales. Here we analyze the reconstructed seawater paleotemperature record for the Phanerozoic (past 545 m.y.), and compare it with the variable CRF reaching Earth and with the reconstructed partial pressure of atmospheric CO2 (pCO2). &lt;strong&gt;We find that at least 66% of the variance in the paleotemperature trend could be attributed to CRF variations likely due to solar system passages through the spiral arms of the galaxy&lt;/strong&gt;. Assuming that the entire residual variance in temperature is due solely to the CO2 greenhouse effect, we propose a tentative upper limit to the long-term “equilibrium” warming effect of CO2, one which is potentially lower than that based on general circulation models.

I&#039;m looking forward to the CERN CLOUD report but I bet the &quot;greenhouse community&quot; isn&#039;t. 

Thanks for bringing up that email Andy - and thanks Climategate whistleblower (HARRY was that you?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the paper (&#8220;CR fiasco&#8221; apparently) that Wigley and the &#8220;greenhouse community&#8221; were trying to quash &#8220;under De Freitas&#8217;s editorship&#8221;?</p>
<p><strong> Celestial driver of Phanerozoic climate?</strong></p>
<p>Shaviv and Veizer, 2003</p>
<p><a href="http://www.juniata.edu/projects/oceans/GL111/celestialdriverofclimate.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.juniata.edu/projects/oceans/GL111/celestialdriverofclimate.pdf</a></p>
<p>ABSTRACT<br />
Atmospheric levels of CO2 are commonly assumed to be a main driver of<br />
global climate. <strong>Independent empirical evidence suggests that the galactic cosmic ray flux (CRF) is linked to climate variability</strong>. Both drivers are presently discussed in the context of daily to millennial variations, although they should also operate over geological time scales. Here we analyze the reconstructed seawater paleotemperature record for the Phanerozoic (past 545 m.y.), and compare it with the variable CRF reaching Earth and with the reconstructed partial pressure of atmospheric CO2 (pCO2). <strong>We find that at least 66% of the variance in the paleotemperature trend could be attributed to CRF variations likely due to solar system passages through the spiral arms of the galaxy</strong>. Assuming that the entire residual variance in temperature is due solely to the CO2 greenhouse effect, we propose a tentative upper limit to the long-term “equilibrium” warming effect of CO2, one which is potentially lower than that based on general circulation models.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to the CERN CLOUD report but I bet the &#8220;greenhouse community&#8221; isn&#8217;t. </p>
<p>Thanks for bringing up that email Andy &#8211; and thanks Climategate whistleblower (HARRY was that you?).</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63303</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 21:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63303</guid>
		<description>We should note that de Freitas has been hounded for years.
This climategate email from Tom Wigley tells a very similar story.

http://assassinationscience.com/climategate/1/FOIA/mail/1061298033.txt

If you are interested in the UEA emails, the eastangliaemails.com site appears to have disappeared.

However, this site gives some good search options

http://yourvoicematters.org/cru/mailsearch.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We should note that de Freitas has been hounded for years.<br />
This climategate email from Tom Wigley tells a very similar story.</p>
<p><a href="http://assassinationscience.com/climategate/1/FOIA/mail/1061298033.txt" rel="nofollow">http://assassinationscience.com/climategate/1/FOIA/mail/1061298033.txt</a></p>
<p>If you are interested in the UEA emails, the eastangliaemails.com site appears to have disappeared.</p>
<p>However, this site gives some good search options</p>
<p><a href="http://yourvoicematters.org/cru/mailsearch.php" rel="nofollow">http://yourvoicematters.org/cru/mailsearch.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63255</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63255</guid>
		<description>Well spotted Andy, tendentious reporting IMHO.  As was said above by Anthropogenic Global Cooling, it looks like an attempt to stir up some controversy. Why does it merit an article in the NZH that 3 med students are badly informed about AGW, lack critical thinking abilities and were given an ill-thought out assignment. (Never mind the insinuations about Holocaust denial and academic freedom!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spotted Andy, tendentious reporting IMHO.  As was said above by Anthropogenic Global Cooling, it looks like an attempt to stir up some controversy. Why does it merit an article in the NZH that 3 med students are badly informed about AGW, lack critical thinking abilities and were given an ill-thought out assignment. (Never mind the insinuations about Holocaust denial and academic freedom!)</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63245</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jul 2011 00:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63245</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a previous article from last week by the same Herald author that I missed

&lt;em&gt;When a group of final year Auckland Medical School students began a week-long assignment on the impact of climate change on public health, they were given a CD of suggested reading material and a list of climate change experts they should talk to.

Chris de Freitas was on the list and the CD contained several articles disputing climate change and its effects - one written by de Freitas.

The students were bemused. &quot;The project was on the consequence of climate change on human health - things like temperature-related illnesses and changes in disease patterns - not whether climate change was occurring or not,&quot; said one. Professor Alistair Woodward, head of the School of Population Health, which ran the short course, agrees: &quot;It wasn&#039;t the best use of their time and we won&#039;t run the course that way in the future.&quot; 
&lt;/em&gt;


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&amp;objectid=10738747

One may ask, of course, how we can distinguish the anthropogenic signal from the natural one, and then attribute that to human health.


However, I think that these studies only reinforce the misconception that ALL climate change is human-induced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a previous article from last week by the same Herald author that I missed</p>
<p><em>When a group of final year Auckland Medical School students began a week-long assignment on the impact of climate change on public health, they were given a CD of suggested reading material and a list of climate change experts they should talk to.</p>
<p>Chris de Freitas was on the list and the CD contained several articles disputing climate change and its effects &#8211; one written by de Freitas.</p>
<p>The students were bemused. &#8220;The project was on the consequence of climate change on human health &#8211; things like temperature-related illnesses and changes in disease patterns &#8211; not whether climate change was occurring or not,&#8221; said one. Professor Alistair Woodward, head of the School of Population Health, which ran the short course, agrees: &#8220;It wasn&#8217;t the best use of their time and we won&#8217;t run the course that way in the future.&#8221;<br />
</em></p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&#038;objectid=10738747" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&#038;objectid=10738747</a></p>
<p>One may ask, of course, how we can distinguish the anthropogenic signal from the natural one, and then attribute that to human health.</p>
<p>However, I think that these studies only reinforce the misconception that ALL climate change is human-induced.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/07/de-freitas-on-solid-ground/comment-page-1/#comment-63194</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 08:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=10638#comment-63194</guid>
		<description>The companion Herald article cites Kevin Trenberth:-

Global warming &#039;influencing weather extremes&#039;
By Isaac Davison
5:30 AM Friday Jul 15, 2011

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&amp;objectid=10738572

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Christchurch-born climate scientist Kevin Trenberth, now employed by the US National Centre for Atmospheric Research, said the effects of cumulative greenhouse gases building up in the atmosphere was most evident in rising ocean temperatures and ice melt.

He calculated that the sea surface temperature has increased 0.55C since the 1970s. This meant the water vapour in the atmosphere immediately above the ocean increased by 4 per cent.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sea surface temperature 2002 - 2011 update is here :-

Global SST Update: Still No Sign of Resumed Warming

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/07/global-sst-update-still-no-sign-of-resumed-warming/

Water vapour levels are here:-

http://climate4you.com/ (click &quot;Greenhouse Gasses&quot;)

WV &quot;immediately above the ocean&quot; is the 1000 mb (hPa) pressure zone. It&#039;s difficult to see Trenberth&#039;s &quot;4%&quot; increase&quot; but selecting 1970 as a start date obviously helps his cause. No increase this century though.

The data sources are linked and I suggest everyone becomes familiar with WV data and trends because I think we will be hearing a lot more about &quot;extreme weather&quot; as time goes on and the warming hiatus becomes more and more obvious. Trenberth et al will want to grasp the tenuous WV straw at 1000 hPa because the AGW/GHG critical 300 hPa data is obviously contrary to the &quot;consensus&quot;.

BTW, great &quot;extreme weather&quot; debunking work in the post Richard T.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The companion Herald article cites Kevin Trenberth:-</p>
<p>Global warming &#8216;influencing weather extremes&#8217;<br />
By Isaac Davison<br />
5:30 AM Friday Jul 15, 2011</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&#038;objectid=10738572" rel="nofollow">http://www.nzherald.co.nz/environment/news/article.cfm?c_id=39&#038;objectid=10738572</a></p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Christchurch-born climate scientist Kevin Trenberth, now employed by the US National Centre for Atmospheric Research, said the effects of cumulative greenhouse gases building up in the atmosphere was most evident in rising ocean temperatures and ice melt.</p>
<p>He calculated that the sea surface temperature has increased 0.55C since the 1970s. This meant the water vapour in the atmosphere immediately above the ocean increased by 4 per cent.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Sea surface temperature 2002 &#8211; 2011 update is here :-</p>
<p>Global SST Update: Still No Sign of Resumed Warming</p>
<p><a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/07/global-sst-update-still-no-sign-of-resumed-warming/" rel="nofollow">http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/07/global-sst-update-still-no-sign-of-resumed-warming/</a></p>
<p>Water vapour levels are here:-</p>
<p><a href="http://climate4you.com/" rel="nofollow">http://climate4you.com/</a> (click &#8220;Greenhouse Gasses&#8221;)</p>
<p>WV &#8220;immediately above the ocean&#8221; is the 1000 mb (hPa) pressure zone. It&#8217;s difficult to see Trenberth&#8217;s &#8220;4%&#8221; increase&#8221; but selecting 1970 as a start date obviously helps his cause. No increase this century though.</p>
<p>The data sources are linked and I suggest everyone becomes familiar with WV data and trends because I think we will be hearing a lot more about &#8220;extreme weather&#8221; as time goes on and the warming hiatus becomes more and more obvious. Trenberth et al will want to grasp the tenuous WV straw at 1000 hPa because the AGW/GHG critical 300 hPa data is obviously contrary to the &#8220;consensus&#8221;.</p>
<p>BTW, great &#8220;extreme weather&#8221; debunking work in the post Richard T.</p>
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