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	<title>Comments on: Courting NIWA</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Doug Proctor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67221</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Proctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 18:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67221</guid>
		<description>The visual disconnect between the original records and the final, combined record of the 7SS/NZT7 is so clear that it is difficult if not impossible to believe that any other records can be successfully challenged if the New Zealand Magnificent Seven cannot.  

For NIWA to reproduce the original results without access to the original modifications while also disallowing the orginal results as worthy of NIWA approval, and to get the BoM to produce a clearly qualified and nuanced support of the seven station study without having to demonstrate or detail why they neither reject nor promote the 7SS, shows tremendous political machinations in the background.  

A simple &quot;We looked at it, and its bloody excellent, mate!&quot; and &quot;We re-did it, and the original Salinger work, however he did it, was spot on, mate!&quot;, should have been possible for such a technical subject and a precise reproduction.  The public distancing by the technical worker-bee is telling, but unfortunately it doesn&#039;t have any legislative volume.

We live in weird times.  It&#039;s not nature that shows the New Normal.  It is politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The visual disconnect between the original records and the final, combined record of the 7SS/NZT7 is so clear that it is difficult if not impossible to believe that any other records can be successfully challenged if the New Zealand Magnificent Seven cannot.  </p>
<p>For NIWA to reproduce the original results without access to the original modifications while also disallowing the orginal results as worthy of NIWA approval, and to get the BoM to produce a clearly qualified and nuanced support of the seven station study without having to demonstrate or detail why they neither reject nor promote the 7SS, shows tremendous political machinations in the background.  </p>
<p>A simple &#8220;We looked at it, and its bloody excellent, mate!&#8221; and &#8220;We re-did it, and the original Salinger work, however he did it, was spot on, mate!&#8221;, should have been possible for such a technical subject and a precise reproduction.  The public distancing by the technical worker-bee is telling, but unfortunately it doesn&#8217;t have any legislative volume.</p>
<p>We live in weird times.  It&#8217;s not nature that shows the New Normal.  It is politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67170</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 21:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67170</guid>
		<description>Now that the ETS is back on the radar (several pieces in the media in the last 24 hours), I agree with Mike that media releases are a good way to go.

Barry Brill has being doing a great job getting stuff onto Scoop.co.nz btw</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that the ETS is back on the radar (several pieces in the media in the last 24 hours), I agree with Mike that media releases are a good way to go.</p>
<p>Barry Brill has being doing a great job getting stuff onto Scoop.co.nz btw</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67168</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 21:24:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67168</guid>
		<description>Yeah, ain&#039;t that easy to do! The original temp record, created by Jim Salinger in 1980, used seven weather stations around the country. Hence it was referred to as the Seven Station Series, or the &quot;7SS&quot;.

When NIWA reviewed that record in response to our questions and criticisms (releasing the &quot;review report&quot; in December 2010), they kept the same seven stations but recreated the adjustments (we asked them what the adjustments were, but they could not tell us because they had lost the records). Remember that raw temperature readings often need adjusting for non-climatic influences over the years like trees growing up and sheltering the station or lots of new roads and nearby buildings raising the temperature.

We still have a 7SS, sometimes referred to as the NZT7, though now I can&#039;t find where that came from. NIWA&#039;s report was titled &quot;Report on the Review of NIWA’s ‘Seven-Station’ Temperature Series.&quot; I&#039;ve just checked NIWA&#039;s web site and they refer to the temperature series as &quot;the &#039;seven-station&#039; temperature series.&quot; Among ourselves, the Coalition tends to call the old series the 7SS and the new one the NZT7.

So, there&#039;s just the one seven-station series, made from seven weather stations. NIWA recently recreated it and got the BoM to peer-review that reconstruction. It&#039;s still the 7SS (for want of a better abbreviation), but there&#039;s an old one and a new one.

That help?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, ain&#8217;t that easy to do! The original temp record, created by Jim Salinger in 1980, used seven weather stations around the country. Hence it was referred to as the Seven Station Series, or the &#8220;7SS&#8221;.</p>
<p>When NIWA reviewed that record in response to our questions and criticisms (releasing the &#8220;review report&#8221; in December 2010), they kept the same seven stations but recreated the adjustments (we asked them what the adjustments were, but they could not tell us because they had lost the records). Remember that raw temperature readings often need adjusting for non-climatic influences over the years like trees growing up and sheltering the station or lots of new roads and nearby buildings raising the temperature.</p>
<p>We still have a 7SS, sometimes referred to as the NZT7, though now I can&#8217;t find where that came from. NIWA&#8217;s report was titled &#8220;Report on the Review of NIWA’s ‘Seven-Station’ Temperature Series.&#8221; I&#8217;ve just checked NIWA&#8217;s web site and they refer to the temperature series as &#8220;the &#8216;seven-station&#8217; temperature series.&#8221; Among ourselves, the Coalition tends to call the old series the 7SS and the new one the NZT7.</p>
<p>So, there&#8217;s just the one seven-station series, made from seven weather stations. NIWA recently recreated it and got the BoM to peer-review that reconstruction. It&#8217;s still the 7SS (for want of a better abbreviation), but there&#8217;s an old one and a new one.</p>
<p>That help?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67166</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67166</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What is the legal ramifications for NIWA of not filing within its mandated time-frame? Or did the “tentative” agreement give them legal reason to say they did so?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t know. Everything is being done before a judge, so I guess he decides on the ramifications. I&#039;m not sure I even want to discuss the details; in mentioning them here, I do hope our legal counsel doesn&#039;t refuse to answer my questions in future.

I have to say something, though, because there&#039;s such a lot of interest, not just in New Zealand, but around the world. The case is important to individuals and groups in many countries who wonder how to make an impression on this CAGW colossus that is almost totally out of control. How does David defeat this enormous Goliath?

Perhaps a simple court case against the national temperature record might do it? As the murderer Al Capone was brought to heel by tax indiscretions. Most of the &quot;scientific&quot; case for CAGW rests on predicted effects, but some of it depends on the 20th century warming. If that were destroyed, the science falls apart and, more importantly, the general public can grasp what&#039;s happened.

It&#039;s not rocket science, but simple fraud. Even if it was driven by the purest of motives. Like Sir John Houghton said: &quot;If we want a good environmental policy in the future we’ll have to have a disaster.&quot; Purest of motive.

When we started this investigation, we were just trying to winkle out the details, but now it seems quite on the cards that we might cause a rewrite of the 20th century temperature record. And destroy untoward warming.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What is the legal ramifications for NIWA of not filing within its mandated time-frame? Or did the “tentative” agreement give them legal reason to say they did so?</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know. Everything is being done before a judge, so I guess he decides on the ramifications. I&#8217;m not sure I even want to discuss the details; in mentioning them here, I do hope our legal counsel doesn&#8217;t refuse to answer my questions in future.</p>
<p>I have to say something, though, because there&#8217;s such a lot of interest, not just in New Zealand, but around the world. The case is important to individuals and groups in many countries who wonder how to make an impression on this CAGW colossus that is almost totally out of control. How does David defeat this enormous Goliath?</p>
<p>Perhaps a simple court case against the national temperature record might do it? As the murderer Al Capone was brought to heel by tax indiscretions. Most of the &#8220;scientific&#8221; case for CAGW rests on predicted effects, but some of it depends on the 20th century warming. If that were destroyed, the science falls apart and, more importantly, the general public can grasp what&#8217;s happened.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not rocket science, but simple fraud. Even if it was driven by the purest of motives. Like Sir John Houghton said: &#8220;If we want a good environmental policy in the future we’ll have to have a disaster.&#8221; Purest of motive.</p>
<p>When we started this investigation, we were just trying to winkle out the details, but now it seems quite on the cards that we might cause a rewrite of the 20th century temperature record. And destroy untoward warming.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Jowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67165</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Jowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 20:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67165</guid>
		<description>Take out a one-page colour ad in the Dominion:  &lt;b&gt;Why is NIWA lying about New Zealand&#039;s temperature?&lt;/b&gt;

That should rattle their cage.  Might make one or two journo&#039;s take an interest.

Or, how about proposing that John Boscawen asks the above as a parliamentary question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take out a one-page colour ad in the Dominion:  <b>Why is NIWA lying about New Zealand&#8217;s temperature?</b></p>
<p>That should rattle their cage.  Might make one or two journo&#8217;s take an interest.</p>
<p>Or, how about proposing that John Boscawen asks the above as a parliamentary question?</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67161</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 19:25:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67161</guid>
		<description>I am a little confused by the number of NIWA temperature records. Which was the one peer reviewed by the Australian BoM?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a little confused by the number of NIWA temperature records. Which was the one peer reviewed by the Australian BoM?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Proctor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67151</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Proctor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 15:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67151</guid>
		<description>What is the legal ramifications for NIWA of not filing within its mandated time-frame?  Or did the &quot;tentative&quot; agreement give them legal reason to say they did so?

The Department of Circumlocution would be proud of its grandchild.

It&#039;s all a timing matter.  Methinks a bunch of people want the Climate and carbon tax to go away.  They&#039;ll keep the taxes, of course, but the controversy can just wither on the vine while the lead authors ride out the ends of their careers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is the legal ramifications for NIWA of not filing within its mandated time-frame?  Or did the &#8220;tentative&#8221; agreement give them legal reason to say they did so?</p>
<p>The Department of Circumlocution would be proud of its grandchild.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all a timing matter.  Methinks a bunch of people want the Climate and carbon tax to go away.  They&#8217;ll keep the taxes, of course, but the controversy can just wither on the vine while the lead authors ride out the ends of their careers.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/09/courting-niwa/comment-page-1/#comment-67143</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11413#comment-67143</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a bad episode of yes Minister. They are probably plotting how to get themselves out of the mess they created. Pity the minister resposible is not pro -active like the RWC minister. Thats whats needed some Butt kicking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a bad episode of yes Minister. They are probably plotting how to get themselves out of the mess they created. Pity the minister resposible is not pro -active like the RWC minister. Thats whats needed some Butt kicking.</p>
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