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	<title>Comments on: Climategate II &#8211; will the liars never learn?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 08:22:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72942</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72942</guid>
		<description>Climategate II The Cause

Movie Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=IZzMuU7oNBs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Climategate II The Cause</p>
<p>Movie Trailer<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=IZzMuU7oNBs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=IZzMuU7oNBs</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72933</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Dec 2011 19:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72933</guid>
		<description>@NZClimate
Your traffic should be going through the roof
Delingpole just linked to you

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100121659/climategate-2-0-junk-science-101-with-michael-mann/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NZClimate<br />
Your traffic should be going through the roof<br />
Delingpole just linked to you</p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100121659/climategate-2-0-junk-science-101-with-michael-mann/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100121659/climategate-2-0-junk-science-101-with-michael-mann/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72592</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:19:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72592</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Ed Cook says that Trenberth &quot;is extremely defensive and combative when ever criticized about anything because he figures that he is smarter than everyone else and virtually infallible&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

ClimateGate FOIA grepper! - Email 2035

    do know that Trenberth, [Dai&#039;s] co-author, is extremely defensive and combative when ever criticized about anything because he figures that he is smarter than everyone else and virtually infallible. [Ed Cook]
    ---
    Keith [Briffa] indicated that you discovered a computational error in Dai&#039;s program that produced unusually extreme PDSI values in some cases. &lt;strong&gt;(Has Dai and that miserable prat Trenberth been told about this? As you might tell, I have genuine dislike for that arrogant Kiwi)&lt;/strong&gt; [Ed Cook]

http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/12/ed-cook-says-that-trenberth-extremely.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Ed Cook says that Trenberth &#8220;is extremely defensive and combative when ever criticized about anything because he figures that he is smarter than everyone else and virtually infallible&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>ClimateGate FOIA grepper! &#8211; Email 2035</p>
<p>    do know that Trenberth, [Dai's] co-author, is extremely defensive and combative when ever criticized about anything because he figures that he is smarter than everyone else and virtually infallible. [Ed Cook]<br />
    &#8212;<br />
    Keith [Briffa] indicated that you discovered a computational error in Dai&#8217;s program that produced unusually extreme PDSI values in some cases. <strong>(Has Dai and that miserable prat Trenberth been told about this? As you might tell, I have genuine dislike for that arrogant Kiwi)</strong> [Ed Cook]</p>
<p><a href="http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/12/ed-cook-says-that-trenberth-extremely.html" rel="nofollow">http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/12/ed-cook-says-that-trenberth-extremely.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72458</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 06:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72458</guid>
		<description>Great article by Anthony Cox at The Drum (surprisingly, as considerable Borax):-

Climategate 2: A consensus emerges

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3707172.html

Read about Tony Cox here:-

http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/open-threads/climate/regions/australia/#comment-26245

Anthony Cox is a lawyer and secretary of The Climate Sceptics, he has degrees in law and climatology</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article by Anthony Cox at The Drum (surprisingly, as considerable Borax):-</p>
<p>Climategate 2: A consensus emerges</p>
<p><a href="http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3707172.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3707172.html</a></p>
<p>Read about Tony Cox here:-</p>
<p><a href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/open-threads/climate/regions/australia/#comment-26245" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/open-threads/climate/regions/australia/#comment-26245</a></p>
<p>Anthony Cox is a lawyer and secretary of The Climate Sceptics, he has degrees in law and climatology</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72441</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72441</guid>
		<description>@NZClimate. You won&#039;t change any minds at &quot;Hot Topic&quot;. You have as much chance of converting a Muslim to Catholicism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@NZClimate. You won&#8217;t change any minds at &#8220;Hot Topic&#8221;. You have as much chance of converting a Muslim to Catholicism.</p>
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		<title>By: NZClimate</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72438</link>
		<dc:creator>NZClimate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 01:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72438</guid>
		<description>And somebody has now posted this link in the comments section of the 2nd of the posts. However, I am not sure anyone will be convinced with this further attempt at smearing in the face of what the emails actually say. It might just help bring some more traffic to the post (and some of  those arrivals will not have been exposed to skeptic argument), which is a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And somebody has now posted this link in the comments section of the 2nd of the posts. However, I am not sure anyone will be convinced with this further attempt at smearing in the face of what the emails actually say. It might just help bring some more traffic to the post (and some of  those arrivals will not have been exposed to skeptic argument), which is a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72431</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 23:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72431</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve put a note under Mark&#039;s latest &quot;More Shabby Behaviour&quot; post in case he&#039;s not subscribed to comments here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve put a note under Mark&#8217;s latest &#8220;More Shabby Behaviour&#8221; post in case he&#8217;s not subscribed to comments here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72417</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72417</guid>
		<description>Looks like Hot Topic are on your case.
[They sure are: &lt;a href=&quot;http://hot-topic.co.nz/put-it-there-pal/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://hot-topic.co.nz/put-it-there-pal/&lt;/a&gt; &#160;&#160;- RT]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like Hot Topic are on your case.<br />
[They sure are: <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/put-it-there-pal/" rel="nofollow">http://hot-topic.co.nz/put-it-there-pal/</a> &nbsp;&nbsp;- RT]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72414</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72414</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Fudge for Dummies&lt;/strong&gt;.

ClimateGate FOIA grepper! - Email 636

    Solution 1: &lt;strong&gt;fudge the issue. Just accept that we are Fast-trackers and can therefore get away with anything.&lt;/strong&gt;
    [Hat tip: M. Hulme]

Email 5175-Tom Wigley - 2004

    In any simple global formula, there should be at least two clearly identifiable sources of uncertainty. One is the sensitivity (d(melt)/dT) and the other is the total available ice. In the TAR, the latter never comes into it in their analysis (i.e., the &#039;derivation&#039; of the GSIC formula) -- &lt;strong&gt;but my point is that it *does* come in by accident due to the quadratic fudge factor&lt;/strong&gt;. The total volume range is 5-32cm, which is, at the very least, inconsistent with other material in the chapter (see below). 5cm is clearly utterly ridiculous.

Email 5054, Colin Harpham, UEA, 2007

    &lt;strong&gt;I will press on with trying to work out why the temperature needs a &#039;fudge factor&#039;&lt;/strong&gt; along with the poorer modelling for winter.

Email 1461, Milind Kandlikar, 2004

    With GCMs the issue is different. &lt;strong&gt;Tuning may be a way to fudge the physics&lt;/strong&gt;. For example, understanding of clouds or aerosols is far from complete - so (ideally) researchers build the &quot;best&quot; model they can within the constraints of physical understanding and computational capacity. &lt;strong&gt;Then they tweak parameters to provide a good approximation to observations&lt;/strong&gt;. It is this context that all the talk about &quot;detuning&quot; is confusing. How does one speak of &quot;detuning&quot; using the same physical models as before? &lt;strong&gt;A &quot;detuned&quot; model merely uses a different set of parameters that match observations&lt;/strong&gt; - it not hard to find multiple combinations of parameters that give the similar model outputs (in complex models with many parameters/degrees of freedom) &lt;strong&gt;So how useful is a detuned model that uses old physics?&lt;/strong&gt; Why is this being seen as some sort of a breakthrough?

Email 1047, Briffa, 2005

    We had to remove the reference to &quot;700 years in France&quot; as I am not sure what this is , and it is not in the text anyway. &lt;strong&gt;The use of &quot;likely&quot; , &quot;very likely&quot; and my additional fudge word &quot;unusual&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; are all carefully chosen where used.

Email 723, Elaine Barrow, UEA, 1997

    &lt;strong&gt;Either the scale needs adjusting, or we need to fudge the figures...&lt;/strong&gt;

Briffa_sep98 code

    ;&lt;strong&gt;****** APPLIES A VERY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION FOR DECLINE*********&lt;/strong&gt;
    ;
    yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]
    valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,$
    2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; &lt;strong&gt;fudge factor&lt;/strong&gt;
    if n_elements(yrloc) ne n_elements(valadj) then message,&#039;Oooops!&#039;

http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/11/climategate-emails-oh-fudge.html

“Our science is solid and it proves unequivocally that the world is warming and that this warming is due to human activities.” - WMO Deputy Secretary-General Jerry Lengoasa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Fudge for Dummies</strong>.</p>
<p>ClimateGate FOIA grepper! &#8211; Email 636</p>
<p>    Solution 1: <strong>fudge the issue. Just accept that we are Fast-trackers and can therefore get away with anything.</strong><br />
    [Hat tip: M. Hulme]</p>
<p>Email 5175-Tom Wigley &#8211; 2004</p>
<p>    In any simple global formula, there should be at least two clearly identifiable sources of uncertainty. One is the sensitivity (d(melt)/dT) and the other is the total available ice. In the TAR, the latter never comes into it in their analysis (i.e., the &#8216;derivation&#8217; of the GSIC formula) &#8212; <strong>but my point is that it *does* come in by accident due to the quadratic fudge factor</strong>. The total volume range is 5-32cm, which is, at the very least, inconsistent with other material in the chapter (see below). 5cm is clearly utterly ridiculous.</p>
<p>Email 5054, Colin Harpham, UEA, 2007</p>
<p>    <strong>I will press on with trying to work out why the temperature needs a &#8216;fudge factor&#8217;</strong> along with the poorer modelling for winter.</p>
<p>Email 1461, Milind Kandlikar, 2004</p>
<p>    With GCMs the issue is different. <strong>Tuning may be a way to fudge the physics</strong>. For example, understanding of clouds or aerosols is far from complete &#8211; so (ideally) researchers build the &#8220;best&#8221; model they can within the constraints of physical understanding and computational capacity. <strong>Then they tweak parameters to provide a good approximation to observations</strong>. It is this context that all the talk about &#8220;detuning&#8221; is confusing. How does one speak of &#8220;detuning&#8221; using the same physical models as before? <strong>A &#8220;detuned&#8221; model merely uses a different set of parameters that match observations</strong> &#8211; it not hard to find multiple combinations of parameters that give the similar model outputs (in complex models with many parameters/degrees of freedom) <strong>So how useful is a detuned model that uses old physics?</strong> Why is this being seen as some sort of a breakthrough?</p>
<p>Email 1047, Briffa, 2005</p>
<p>    We had to remove the reference to &#8220;700 years in France&#8221; as I am not sure what this is , and it is not in the text anyway. <strong>The use of &#8220;likely&#8221; , &#8220;very likely&#8221; and my additional fudge word &#8220;unusual&#8221;</strong> are all carefully chosen where used.</p>
<p>Email 723, Elaine Barrow, UEA, 1997</p>
<p>    <strong>Either the scale needs adjusting, or we need to fudge the figures&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Briffa_sep98 code</p>
<p>    ;<strong>****** APPLIES A VERY ARTIFICIAL CORRECTION FOR DECLINE*********</strong><br />
    ;<br />
    yrloc=[1400,findgen(19)*5.+1904]<br />
    valadj=[0.,0.,0.,0.,0.,-0.1,-0.25,-0.3,0.,-0.1,0.3,0.8,1.2,1.7,2.5,2.6,2.6,$<br />
    2.6,2.6,2.6]*0.75 ; <strong>fudge factor</strong><br />
    if n_elements(yrloc) ne n_elements(valadj) then message,&#8217;Oooops!&#8217;</p>
<p><a href="http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/11/climategate-emails-oh-fudge.html" rel="nofollow">http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2011/11/climategate-emails-oh-fudge.html</a></p>
<p>“Our science is solid and it proves unequivocally that the world is warming and that this warming is due to human activities.” &#8211; WMO Deputy Secretary-General Jerry Lengoasa</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/climategate-ii-will-the-liars-never-learn/comment-page-1/#comment-72240</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11954#comment-72240</guid>
		<description>Chris de Freitas responds in kind on WUWT
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/28/a-response-from-chris-de-freitas/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris de Freitas responds in kind on WUWT<br />
<a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/28/a-response-from-chris-de-freitas/" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/28/a-response-from-chris-de-freitas/</a></p>
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