Comments on: Saving lies in the wind http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/ Taking the heat out of global warming Tue, 22 May 2012 08:22:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-77132 Andy Fri, 13 Jan 2012 01:51:36 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-77132 If you are interested, you can see the Makara wind turbines on google maps here http://g.co/maps/a46zs It looks like one house is only 300m from the nearest turbine. In the UK, they are pushing for a 2km set back If you are interested, you can see the Makara wind turbines on google maps here

http://g.co/maps/a46zs

It looks like one house is only 300m from the nearest turbine. In the UK, they are pushing for a 2km set back

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-77122 Andy Fri, 13 Jan 2012 00:09:01 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-77122 More on the Makara thread <em>AndrewH #30 09:11 am Jan 13 2012 @ Richard Treadgold #17 Your argument wrt the wholesale electricity market is as flawed as your argument wrt climate change. Wind power always bids in at the bottom of the stack of power suppliers and on many occasions will displace electricity supplied from the high priced bidders at the top of the stack. The high prices are predominantly bid from fossil fuel plants or stored hydro when water is short. It is impossible for wind farms to increase the wholesale price in our market and the opposite has been documented in NZ and elsewhere. </em> I've added a comment (not past moderation yet) I believe wind depresses the spot price (true?) but overall the cost is higher because of the subsidies. If wind is so cheap, why do we need an ETS? More on the Makara thread

AndrewH #30 09:11 am Jan 13 2012

@ Richard Treadgold #17

Your argument wrt the wholesale electricity market is as flawed as your argument wrt climate change.

Wind power always bids in at the bottom of the stack of power suppliers and on many occasions will displace electricity supplied from the high priced bidders at the top of the stack. The high prices are predominantly bid from fossil fuel plants or stored hydro when water is short.

It is impossible for wind farms to increase the wholesale price in our market and the opposite has been documented in NZ and elsewhere.

I’ve added a comment (not past moderation yet)
I believe wind depresses the spot price (true?) but overall the cost is higher because of the subsidies.

If wind is so cheap, why do we need an ETS?

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-77001 Andy Wed, 11 Jan 2012 20:40:07 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-77001 Amazingly, the Dom have published both my comments. Here's the link again. http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6223710/Makara-wind-farm-opens-to-public#comments Amazingly, the Dom have published both my comments.
Here’s the link again.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/6223710/Makara-wind-farm-opens-to-public#comments

]]> By: Richard Treadgold http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76926 Richard Treadgold Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:51:41 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76926 It's vital. It’s vital.

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76925 Andy Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:49:03 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76925 Yes and I am grateful to you too Richard, for that freedom. Long may it continue. Yes and I am grateful to you too Richard, for that freedom.
Long may it continue.

]]> By: Richard Treadgold http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76923 Richard Treadgold Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:39:24 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76923 I hope it gets past moderation, but if it doesn't, I'm grateful that we still have free access to this means of expression. I hope it gets past moderation, but if it doesn’t, I’m grateful that we still have free access to this means of expression.

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76921 Andy Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:24:28 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76921 My latest reply, since it probably won't get past moderation (the last one didn't). <em> In the old days, the media would have picked up the issue of people being forced out of their homes due to turbine noise and shadow flicker and run it into a story. This is not exactly an isolated incident. It is happening all over the world where industrial wind turbines are being built. Unfortunately, the purpose of the media these days seems to be a channel for press releases for whichever government department or crony capitalist is currently in favour. We are supposed to be grateful for Meridian for putting in mountain bike and walking tracks? We are supposed to show off these foreign-made machines to visitors and feel some kind of pride? The anti-wind lobby is growing rapidly in Europe and the USA. The NZ wind assoc and their tame journalists will have their work cut out for the next few years. </em> My latest reply, since it probably won’t get past moderation
(the last one didn’t).

In the old days, the media would have picked up the issue of people being forced out of their homes due to turbine noise and shadow flicker and run it into a story.

This is not exactly an isolated incident. It is happening all over the world where industrial wind turbines are being built.

Unfortunately, the purpose of the media these days seems to be a channel for press releases for whichever government department or crony capitalist is currently in favour.

We are supposed to be grateful for Meridian for putting in mountain bike and walking tracks? We are supposed to show off these foreign-made machines to visitors and feel some kind of pride?

The anti-wind lobby is growing rapidly in Europe and the USA. The NZ wind assoc and their tame journalists will have their work cut out for the next few years.

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76919 Andy Wed, 11 Jan 2012 03:03:37 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76919 This was the latest comment on the Makara thread. They didn't publish my last comment so they seem to be wheeling in some propagandists. <em> Awesome, will definitely visit them with family, the kids also think they're cool. I have flown into Welly quite a few times and always think they look quite majestic, but while I can accept that aesthetics can be subjective, Andy S obviously has some personal issues with them. I would definitely proudly show them to visitors from overseas, and the location is perfect - those hills aren't exactly covered in beautiful native bush. </em> Yes, I d have issues with them, but they are not "personal". I have, thankfully, no turbines anywhere near me. I wouldn't feel proud to show visitors a bunch of foreign made bird-choppers that are forcing local residents out of their houses. I'd feel ashamed. This was the latest comment on the Makara thread. They didn’t publish my last comment so they seem to be wheeling in some propagandists.

Awesome, will definitely visit them with family, the kids also think they’re cool. I have flown into Welly quite a few times and always think they look quite majestic, but while I can accept that aesthetics can be subjective, Andy S obviously has some personal issues with them.

I would definitely proudly show them to visitors from overseas, and the location is perfect – those hills aren’t exactly covered in beautiful native bush.

Yes, I d have issues with them, but they are not “personal”. I have, thankfully, no turbines anywhere near me.

I wouldn’t feel proud to show visitors a bunch of foreign made bird-choppers that are forcing local residents out of their houses. I’d feel ashamed.

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76904 Andy Tue, 10 Jan 2012 21:19:42 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76904 Looks like the UK are now invoking some special laws to deal with anti-wind "cranks" <em>Legal Advisor to the European Platform Against Windfarms (EPAW), George Watson is being investigated by the UK government under special powers which are only to apply to criminal/terrorist activities, claims the Platform. A letter, reproduced below, has been sent to Chris Huhne, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, denouncing this improper use of the legislation, and announcing legal proceedings against the UK government. A formal complaint has been made to the Metropolitan Police. According to EPAW, Mr Watson was also harassed by a police officer who visited his home in a Scottish rural area ... on Christmas Eve! Mark Duchamp, Executive Director of EPAW, declared that he was respectfully asking UK government Ministers if they intend to investigate and harass other members of the public who oppose the destruction of the British landscape, the killing of protected bird and bat species, and the deterioration of the health of wind farm neighbours. Mr Watson's only crime, he said, was to have found legal flaws in the way the UK government's energy policy is being applied.</em> http://www.epaw.org/media.php?lang=en&article=pr7 Looks like the UK are now invoking some special laws to deal with anti-wind “cranks”

Legal Advisor to the European Platform Against Windfarms (EPAW), George Watson is being investigated by the UK government under special powers which are only to apply to criminal/terrorist activities, claims the Platform. A letter, reproduced below, has been sent to Chris Huhne, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, denouncing this improper use of the legislation, and announcing legal proceedings against the UK government. A formal complaint has been made to the Metropolitan Police.

According to EPAW, Mr Watson was also harassed by a police officer who visited his home in a Scottish rural area … on Christmas Eve!

Mark Duchamp, Executive Director of EPAW, declared that he was respectfully asking UK government Ministers if they intend to investigate and harass other members of the public who oppose the destruction of the British landscape, the killing of protected bird and bat species, and the deterioration of the health of wind farm neighbours. Mr Watson’s only crime, he said, was to have found legal flaws in the way the UK government’s energy policy is being applied.

http://www.epaw.org/media.php?lang=en&article=pr7

]]> By: Andy http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/11/saving-lies-in-the-wind/comment-page-1/#comment-76870 Andy Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:21:15 +0000 http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=11977#comment-76870 I added some more comment, but in case it doesn't see the light of day, this video from Wisconsin tells a sad story http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l7b4fGoK4Xo The images of the flicker are horrendous, and this is not the first person to claim that the turbines sound like jet engines when running at full speed. You'd think that, given the DomPost article mentions the fact that residents nearby sometimes have to leave their homes because of the noise, the newspaper might actually pick this up and make it into a story. Oh no, it's the mountain bike tracks that are the story. Meridian want us to feel all warm and cuddly about their bird choppers, so much that we go and pay homage at the weekends. Sorry, think I'd rather hang out at the airport runway. I added some more comment, but in case it doesn’t see the light of day, this video from Wisconsin tells a sad story

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l7b4fGoK4Xo

The images of the flicker are horrendous, and this is not the first person to claim that the turbines sound like jet engines when running at full speed.

You’d think that, given the DomPost article mentions the fact that residents nearby sometimes have to leave their homes because of the noise, the newspaper might actually pick this up and make it into a story. Oh no, it’s the mountain bike tracks that are the story.
Meridian want us to feel all warm and cuddly about their bird choppers, so much that we go and pay homage at the weekends.

Sorry, think I’d rather hang out at the airport runway.

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