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	<title>Comments on: In a climate of listening</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 08:22:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Open Letter Across the Barricade &#124; Secular News Daily</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-77169</link>
		<dc:creator>Open Letter Across the Barricade &#124; Secular News Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-77169</guid>
		<description>[...] made in your recent letter to The NZ Listener reproduced on the Climate Conversation Group Blog (see In a climate of listening). Space limitations clearly prevented you from justifying these  five claims (your refer to them as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] made in your recent letter to The NZ Listener reproduced on the Climate Conversation Group Blog (see In a climate of listening). Space limitations clearly prevented you from justifying these  five claims (your refer to them as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Open letter across the barricade &#124; Open Parachute</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-76681</link>
		<dc:creator>Open letter across the barricade &#124; Open Parachute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Jan 2012 00:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-76681</guid>
		<description>[...] made in your recent letter to The NZ Listener reproduced on the Climate Conversation Group Blog (see In a climate of listening). Space limitations clearly prevented you from justifying these  five claims (your refer to them as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] made in your recent letter to The NZ Listener reproduced on the Climate Conversation Group Blog (see In a climate of listening). Space limitations clearly prevented you from justifying these  five claims (your refer to them as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-76204</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-76204</guid>
		<description>‘Lets put this scam to bed in 2012; it has nothing to do with science …’

Now where did I see something about that, ah yes:-

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Warmist Mike Hulme agrees that &quot;the debate around climate change is fundamentally about power and politics rather than the environment...There are not that many &quot;facts&quot; about (the meaning of) climate change which science can unequivocally reveal&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

ClimateGate email 1285

&lt;blockquote&gt;So while not endorsing this attempt at undermining our basis for current exceptional global warming, I must say I find myself in sympathy with much of what Will Hutton writes. In particular &lt;strong&gt;his conclusion that the debate around climate change is fundamentally about power and politics rather than the environment seems undeniable&lt;/strong&gt;. There are not that many &quot;facts&quot; about (the meaning of) climate change which science can unequivocally reveal. I am copying this to Asher Minns, since Asher has been giving the issue of &quot;sound science&quot; and Tyndall&#039;s reaction to it some thought recently. Mike [Hulme]&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Hat tip: AJ

http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2012/01/warmist-mike-hulme-agrees-that-debate.html&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>‘Lets put this scam to bed in 2012; it has nothing to do with science …’</p>
<p>Now where did I see something about that, ah yes:-</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Warmist Mike Hulme agrees that &#8220;the debate around climate change is fundamentally about power and politics rather than the environment&#8230;There are not that many &#8220;facts&#8221; about (the meaning of) climate change which science can unequivocally reveal&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>ClimateGate email 1285</p>
<blockquote><p>So while not endorsing this attempt at undermining our basis for current exceptional global warming, I must say I find myself in sympathy with much of what Will Hutton writes. In particular <strong>his conclusion that the debate around climate change is fundamentally about power and politics rather than the environment seems undeniable</strong>. There are not that many &#8220;facts&#8221; about (the meaning of) climate change which science can unequivocally reveal. I am copying this to Asher Minns, since Asher has been giving the issue of &#8220;sound science&#8221; and Tyndall&#8217;s reaction to it some thought recently. Mike [Hulme]</p></blockquote>
<p>Hat tip: AJ</p>
<p><a href="http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2012/01/warmist-mike-hulme-agrees-that-debate.html" rel="nofollow">http://tomnelson.blogspot.com/2012/01/warmist-mike-hulme-agrees-that-debate.html</a></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: val majkus</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-76196</link>
		<dc:creator>val majkus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-76196</guid>
		<description>copy of a comment I left on other blogs today and seems relevant here:

Steve Goddard has the 2012 Global Warming report posted (with graphs and links)
http://www.real-science.com/2012-global-warming-report-card
in summary (as he says)
The massive bulk of evidence indicates that nothing is wrong, and that Hansen, Mann and the rest of the hockey team are not being honest with us.

■Temperatures are below Hansen’s zero emissions after 2000 Scenario C
■Global temperatures are declining this century
■Sea level has been declining for several years, and is lower now than it was in 2003
■Arctic ice extent and area is the highest for the date since 2005
■Temperatures in western Greenland last year were the coldest since 1996
■Temperatures in Antarctica have been declining for 30 years
■Antarctic ice has been increasing for 30 years
■Winter snow extent is increasing, and has been near record highs in recent years
■Temperatures in Texas show no increase since 1895
■Drought in Australia is at historic lows
■Drought in the US is well below the mean
■Severe tornadoes are on the decline in the US
■US hurricane strikes are on the decline
■Intense hurricanes are on the decline
■Polar Bear populations have tripled
■Yellowstone Grizzly Bear populations have tripled
■USHCN raw thermometer data shows that the US has been cooling since 1895
■The ten deadliest floods in history all occurred with CO2 below 350 ppm
■The deadliest US hurricane, the most powerful US hurricane, and the deadliest US tornado all occurred with CO2 below 350 ppm

and as he says ‘Lets put this scam to bed in 2012; it has nothing to do with science …’

and don’t miss S Fred Singer ‘Fake, fake, fake’ http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/fake_fake_fake_fake.html
…

Time is becoming short. We’re reaching a tipping point — not of the earth’s climate, but of the financial schemes that permanently divert funds from productive activities into wasteful ones, all in the name of “saving the climate.” The results are evident: higher levels of spending, deficits, or taxes; higher prices for energy and electricity and therefore for all manufactured goods; less productive activity; less employment; and more misery. 

It seems odd that all of this is essentially based on a fake — the data that seem to show a (nonexistent) warming. It will be difficult to overturn this notion, but we must keep trying.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>copy of a comment I left on other blogs today and seems relevant here:</p>
<p>Steve Goddard has the 2012 Global Warming report posted (with graphs and links)<br />
<a href="http://www.real-science.com/2012-global-warming-report-card" rel="nofollow">http://www.real-science.com/2012-global-warming-report-card</a><br />
in summary (as he says)<br />
The massive bulk of evidence indicates that nothing is wrong, and that Hansen, Mann and the rest of the hockey team are not being honest with us.</p>
<p>■Temperatures are below Hansen’s zero emissions after 2000 Scenario C<br />
■Global temperatures are declining this century<br />
■Sea level has been declining for several years, and is lower now than it was in 2003<br />
■Arctic ice extent and area is the highest for the date since 2005<br />
■Temperatures in western Greenland last year were the coldest since 1996<br />
■Temperatures in Antarctica have been declining for 30 years<br />
■Antarctic ice has been increasing for 30 years<br />
■Winter snow extent is increasing, and has been near record highs in recent years<br />
■Temperatures in Texas show no increase since 1895<br />
■Drought in Australia is at historic lows<br />
■Drought in the US is well below the mean<br />
■Severe tornadoes are on the decline in the US<br />
■US hurricane strikes are on the decline<br />
■Intense hurricanes are on the decline<br />
■Polar Bear populations have tripled<br />
■Yellowstone Grizzly Bear populations have tripled<br />
■USHCN raw thermometer data shows that the US has been cooling since 1895<br />
■The ten deadliest floods in history all occurred with CO2 below 350 ppm<br />
■The deadliest US hurricane, the most powerful US hurricane, and the deadliest US tornado all occurred with CO2 below 350 ppm</p>
<p>and as he says ‘Lets put this scam to bed in 2012; it has nothing to do with science …’</p>
<p>and don’t miss S Fred Singer ‘Fake, fake, fake’ <a href="http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/fake_fake_fake_fake.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/01/fake_fake_fake_fake.html</a><br />
…</p>
<p>Time is becoming short. We’re reaching a tipping point — not of the earth’s climate, but of the financial schemes that permanently divert funds from productive activities into wasteful ones, all in the name of “saving the climate.” The results are evident: higher levels of spending, deficits, or taxes; higher prices for energy and electricity and therefore for all manufactured goods; less productive activity; less employment; and more misery. </p>
<p>It seems odd that all of this is essentially based on a fake — the data that seem to show a (nonexistent) warming. It will be difficult to overturn this notion, but we must keep trying.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-75713</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Dec 2011 00:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-75713</guid>
		<description>Out there there are good people who do not believe the Clap trap nonesense spouted by these editors, here is a man put his money down to help his country understand a little more. Pity the government does not do this, unless they are only interested in the tax gathering and pandering to the tree huggers out there.
&quot;Buckley is an awkward bugger, typified by his $1.5 million investment into funding a chair at Auckland University to research global warming, principally because: &quot;I just don&#039;t like being told bullshit I want to find out for myself. I would rather believe a scientist than a greenie that just loves hugging trees.&quot; 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/latest-edition/6156365/Sunday-profile-Dirt-track-genius</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out there there are good people who do not believe the Clap trap nonesense spouted by these editors, here is a man put his money down to help his country understand a little more. Pity the government does not do this, unless they are only interested in the tax gathering and pandering to the tree huggers out there.<br />
&#8220;Buckley is an awkward bugger, typified by his $1.5 million investment into funding a chair at Auckland University to research global warming, principally because: &#8220;I just don&#8217;t like being told bullshit I want to find out for myself. I would rather believe a scientist than a greenie that just loves hugging trees.&#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/latest-edition/6156365/Sunday-profile-Dirt-track-genius" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/latest-edition/6156365/Sunday-profile-Dirt-track-genius</a></p>
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		<title>By: Flipper</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-75432</link>
		<dc:creator>Flipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 19:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-75432</guid>
		<description>Good stuff Doug.
But will your letter suffer from a fate similar to that which befell  Rupert Wyndham&#039;s some seven months ago?       One suspects so, since the Listener is part of the whole APN porridge, is it not ?

And to further make your day, since fundamentally the self-interest driven bureaucrats are running this rubbish,   I thought the following might be appropriate as a sort of Boxing Day gift:


Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) n.
 
A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or to succeed are rewarded for not trying with goods and services paid for by confiscating the residual wealth of a diminishing number of producers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good stuff Doug.<br />
But will your letter suffer from a fate similar to that which befell  Rupert Wyndham&#8217;s some seven months ago?       One suspects so, since the Listener is part of the whole APN porridge, is it not ?</p>
<p>And to further make your day, since fundamentally the self-interest driven bureaucrats are running this rubbish,   I thought the following might be appropriate as a sort of Boxing Day gift:</p>
<p>Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) n.</p>
<p>A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or to succeed are rewarded for not trying with goods and services paid for by confiscating the residual wealth of a diminishing number of producers.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-75339</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 20:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-75339</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Why I Do This&lt;/strong&gt;

Posted on December 25, 2011 by Steven Goddard

I have had a number of people speculating today about my motivations.

It has nothing to do with money. I don’t get any compensation, other than a few dollars a month from advertising revenue.

1. I love science, and am offended to the core by this crap excuse for science being propagated by a group of extremely unscrupulous and/or stupid criminals people.

2. This same group has hijacked the environmental movement, which I have been involved with for most of my life.

3. This same group seems determined to destroy the freedom and prosperity which I cherish. Basically – they are lower than pond scum.

4. It is fun.

http://www.real-science.com/why-i-do-this?utm_source=feedburner&amp;utm_medium=feed&amp;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Real-Science%2Ffeed+%28Real+Science%29&amp;utm_content=Google+Reader</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Why I Do This</strong></p>
<p>Posted on December 25, 2011 by Steven Goddard</p>
<p>I have had a number of people speculating today about my motivations.</p>
<p>It has nothing to do with money. I don’t get any compensation, other than a few dollars a month from advertising revenue.</p>
<p>1. I love science, and am offended to the core by this crap excuse for science being propagated by a group of extremely unscrupulous and/or stupid criminals people.</p>
<p>2. This same group has hijacked the environmental movement, which I have been involved with for most of my life.</p>
<p>3. This same group seems determined to destroy the freedom and prosperity which I cherish. Basically – they are lower than pond scum.</p>
<p>4. It is fun.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.real-science.com/why-i-do-this?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Real-Science%2Ffeed+%28Real+Science%29&#038;utm_content=Google+Reader" rel="nofollow">http://www.real-science.com/why-i-do-this?utm_source=feedburner&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Real-Science%2Ffeed+%28Real+Science%29&#038;utm_content=Google+Reader</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-75133</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 19:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-75133</guid>
		<description>Harry, what you say about Carl Sagan is interesting; I was unaware of it.

However, though you may oppose what Sagan did, said and stands for, yet the statement Doug attributes to him is worthy of repetition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry, what you say about Carl Sagan is interesting; I was unaware of it.</p>
<p>However, though you may oppose what Sagan did, said and stands for, yet the statement Doug attributes to him is worthy of repetition.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Dale Huffman</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2011/12/in-a-climate-of-listening/comment-page-1/#comment-75099</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Dale Huffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Dec 2011 14:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12191#comment-75099</guid>
		<description>All well and good, until you quote Carl Sagan, who is responsible for the establishment of the pseudo-scientific &quot;greenhouse effect&quot; in science today.  I would say, in this context, the only antidote to pseudo-science today is to let go of the ideas of those who recent generations, in their youthful naivety, made heroes of science and keepers of the eternal truth.  Carl Sagan was unworthy of such adoration and subjugation of critical thought (and so was Darwin, and a long line of evolutionists up to and especially including Richard Dawkins -- they were all wrong, and worse, wrong-headed in their promulgation of their essentially juvenile ideas).  All of the global warming frenzy, and fighting to correct climate science, is but the necessary struggle for everyone to grow up and throw off past, intellectually stultifying and, inescapably, reality-denying dogmas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All well and good, until you quote Carl Sagan, who is responsible for the establishment of the pseudo-scientific &#8220;greenhouse effect&#8221; in science today.  I would say, in this context, the only antidote to pseudo-science today is to let go of the ideas of those who recent generations, in their youthful naivety, made heroes of science and keepers of the eternal truth.  Carl Sagan was unworthy of such adoration and subjugation of critical thought (and so was Darwin, and a long line of evolutionists up to and especially including Richard Dawkins &#8212; they were all wrong, and worse, wrong-headed in their promulgation of their essentially juvenile ideas).  All of the global warming frenzy, and fighting to correct climate science, is but the necessary struggle for everyone to grow up and throw off past, intellectually stultifying and, inescapably, reality-denying dogmas.</p>
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