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	<title>Comments on: In the beginning was the Warming</title>
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	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 08:22:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77679</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 08:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77679</guid>
		<description>And yet more on Project Hayes
http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/6286634/Landscape-saved-hopeless-case-won


My comments (Andy S) seem to have induced some more mouth-foaming spasms amongst The  Faithful (actually I am trying to provide some positive ideas rather than just trolling) 

Feel free to join in.
It&#039;s all a part of the coordinated &quot;denialist strategy&quot; that Frau Baxter claims on Hot Topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And yet more on Project Hayes<br />
<a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/6286634/Landscape-saved-hopeless-case-won" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/6286634/Landscape-saved-hopeless-case-won</a></p>
<p>My comments (Andy S) seem to have induced some more mouth-foaming spasms amongst The  Faithful (actually I am trying to provide some positive ideas rather than just trolling) </p>
<p>Feel free to join in.<br />
It&#8217;s all a part of the coordinated &#8220;denialist strategy&#8221; that Frau Baxter claims on Hot Topic.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77672</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 06:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77672</guid>
		<description>The RealClimate GHG ocean heating mechanism is particularly nutty:-

&#039;Why greenhouse gases heat the ocean&#039;

Guest commentary by Peter Minnett (RSMAS) 5 September 2006 

Deflates his case somewhat with a magnificent example of foot shooting in the second to last paragraph &quot;Of course the range of net infrared forcing caused by changing cloud conditions (~100W/m2) is much greater than that caused by increasing levels of greenhouse gases (e.g. doubling pre-industrial CO2 levels will increase the net forcing by ~4W/m2), but the objective of this exercise was to demonstrate a relationship&quot; [and the cloudiness &quot;relationship&quot;?]

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/09/why-greenhouse-gases-heat-the-ocean/

And Rob Painting&#039;s mechanism, adapted from the RC post, takes the nuttiness to a whole new level:-

&#039;How Increasing Carbon Dioxide Heats The Ocean&#039;

by Rob Painting 18 October 2011

Steadfastly confuses heat and radiation, conflates the normal cool-skin effect with a bogus GHG skin effect and also does some foot shooting &quot;Despite being only 0.1 to 1mm thick on average, this skin layer is the major player in the long-term warming of the oceans&quot; [GHG LWIR interacts effectively at 0.01mm]

http://skepticalscience.com/How-Increasing-Carbon-Dioxide-Heats-The-Ocean.html

renewable guy completes the nuttiness:-

&quot;With an ever increasing co2 being emitted into the air, this surface layer insulation helps to force heat into the lower oceans&quot; [a thermal insulator does not &quot;force heat&quot;, especially one only 0.01mm thick on a turbulent ocean surface]

http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33328</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The RealClimate GHG ocean heating mechanism is particularly nutty:-</p>
<p>&#8216;Why greenhouse gases heat the ocean&#8217;</p>
<p>Guest commentary by Peter Minnett (RSMAS) 5 September 2006 </p>
<p>Deflates his case somewhat with a magnificent example of foot shooting in the second to last paragraph &#8220;Of course the range of net infrared forcing caused by changing cloud conditions (~100W/m2) is much greater than that caused by increasing levels of greenhouse gases (e.g. doubling pre-industrial CO2 levels will increase the net forcing by ~4W/m2), but the objective of this exercise was to demonstrate a relationship&#8221; [and the cloudiness "relationship"?]</p>
<p><a href="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/09/why-greenhouse-gases-heat-the-ocean/" rel="nofollow">http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/09/why-greenhouse-gases-heat-the-ocean/</a></p>
<p>And Rob Painting&#8217;s mechanism, adapted from the RC post, takes the nuttiness to a whole new level:-</p>
<p>&#8216;How Increasing Carbon Dioxide Heats The Ocean&#8217;</p>
<p>by Rob Painting 18 October 2011</p>
<p>Steadfastly confuses heat and radiation, conflates the normal cool-skin effect with a bogus GHG skin effect and also does some foot shooting &#8220;Despite being only 0.1 to 1mm thick on average, this skin layer is the major player in the long-term warming of the oceans&#8221; [GHG LWIR interacts effectively at 0.01mm]</p>
<p><a href="http://skepticalscience.com/How-Increasing-Carbon-Dioxide-Heats-The-Ocean.html" rel="nofollow">http://skepticalscience.com/How-Increasing-Carbon-Dioxide-Heats-The-Ocean.html</a></p>
<p>renewable guy completes the nuttiness:-</p>
<p>&#8220;With an ever increasing co2 being emitted into the air, this surface layer insulation helps to force heat into the lower oceans&#8221; [a thermal insulator does not "force heat", especially one only 0.01mm thick on a turbulent ocean surface]</p>
<p><a href="http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33328" rel="nofollow">http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33328</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77669</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77669</guid>
		<description>&quot;renewable guy&quot; is championing some bogus AGW support at Climate Change Dispatch &#039;That Bogus Greenhouse Gas Whatchamacallit Effect&#039;.

Skirmishes:-

Humidity/CO2 residency http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33221

&quot;Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence&quot; - Hansen&#039;s mechanism (undefined) for a GHG effect being the &quot;dominant role&quot; in OHC build-up as he states in H11 and a mechanism (unscientific) as espoused by Peter Minnett (RSMAS) at RealClimate and Rob Painting at SkepticalScience http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095

A GHG figure minus water vapour that SkS gives prominence to http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;renewable guy&#8221; is championing some bogus AGW support at Climate Change Dispatch &#8216;That Bogus Greenhouse Gas Whatchamacallit Effect&#8217;.</p>
<p>Skirmishes:-</p>
<p>Humidity/CO2 residency <a href="http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33221" rel="nofollow">http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33221</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence&#8221; &#8211; Hansen&#8217;s mechanism (undefined) for a GHG effect being the &#8220;dominant role&#8221; in OHC build-up as he states in H11 and a mechanism (unscientific) as espoused by Peter Minnett (RSMAS) at RealClimate and Rob Painting at SkepticalScience <a href="http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095" rel="nofollow">http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095</a></p>
<p>A GHG figure minus water vapour that SkS gives prominence to <a href="http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095" rel="nofollow">http://climatechangedispatch.com/home/9799-that-bogus-greenhouse-gas-whatchamacallit-effect#comment-33095</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77663</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77663</guid>
		<description>Black:-

&quot;Since then [1970s], the world&#039;s surface on average has warmed, and the UK is no exception, with the Central England Temperature record, for example, showing a rise of at least 0.5C in the interim&quot;

CET has since plummeted 2C back to 1659 level since mid 2000s:-

http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/HadCET_an.html

But I&#039;m sure the hedgehogs are onto it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black:-</p>
<p>&#8220;Since then [1970s], the world&#8217;s surface on average has warmed, and the UK is no exception, with the Central England Temperature record, for example, showing a rise of at least 0.5C in the interim&#8221;</p>
<p>CET has since plummeted 2C back to 1659 level since mid 2000s:-</p>
<p><a href="http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/HadCET_an.html" rel="nofollow">http://junksciencearchive.com/MSU_Temps/HadCET_an.html</a></p>
<p>But I&#8217;m sure the hedgehogs are onto it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77657</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 01:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77657</guid>
		<description>In other news.

Public request for climate hedgehog study

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16597723</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other news.</p>
<p>Public request for climate hedgehog study</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16597723" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16597723</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77655</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:20:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77655</guid>
		<description>Quite a lot of mouth-foaming going on in that thread. Most entertaining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite a lot of mouth-foaming going on in that thread. Most entertaining.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77649</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77649</guid>
		<description>Seen at HT (Cranking it out):-

&lt;blockquote&gt;Dappledwater January 19, 2012 at 9:02 pm

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bill -“I’m constantly amazed by how often I’m told we’re ‘losing the debate’. Not in f’ing science we’re not!”&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;/blockquote&gt;I’m sure those living in La-la land truly believe it Bill. Sad isn’t it? And yet &lt;strong&gt;everyday I read dozens of new peer-reviewed papers which reveal global warming is here&lt;/strong&gt;, it’s bad, and only likely to get much,much worse.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1) Are there really &quot;dozens of new peer-reviewed papers which reveal global warming is here&quot; published &quot;everyday&quot;?

2) Is Rob Painting actually able to read &quot;dozens of new peer-reviewed papers&quot; &quot;everyday&quot;?

3) If he is able, a) he either has a lot of time on his hands and/or b) he has an exceptional capacity (Waaay more time and waaaay more capacity than most folks I&#039;m sure).

4) Is global warming really &quot;bad&quot; right now?

5) By &quot;much,much worse&quot;, does he mean the lack of global warming this century (&quot;here&quot; now)?

6) Is that the correct use of &quot;which&quot; (&quot;which reveal&quot;)? Shouldn&#039;t it be &quot;that reveal&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seen at HT (Cranking it out):-</p>
<blockquote><p>Dappledwater January 19, 2012 at 9:02 pm</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Bill -“I’m constantly amazed by how often I’m told we’re ‘losing the debate’. Not in f’ing science we’re not!”</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>I’m sure those living in La-la land truly believe it Bill. Sad isn’t it? And yet <strong>everyday I read dozens of new peer-reviewed papers which reveal global warming is here</strong>, it’s bad, and only likely to get much,much worse.</p></blockquote>
<p>1) Are there really &#8220;dozens of new peer-reviewed papers which reveal global warming is here&#8221; published &#8220;everyday&#8221;?</p>
<p>2) Is Rob Painting actually able to read &#8220;dozens of new peer-reviewed papers&#8221; &#8220;everyday&#8221;?</p>
<p>3) If he is able, a) he either has a lot of time on his hands and/or b) he has an exceptional capacity (Waaay more time and waaaay more capacity than most folks I&#8217;m sure).</p>
<p>4) Is global warming really &#8220;bad&#8221; right now?</p>
<p>5) By &#8220;much,much worse&#8221;, does he mean the lack of global warming this century (&#8220;here&#8221; now)?</p>
<p>6) Is that the correct use of &#8220;which&#8221; (&#8220;which reveal&#8221;)? Shouldn&#8217;t it be &#8220;that reveal&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77648</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77648</guid>
		<description>Revealing chain of events re AR5 confidentiality, Phil Jones and Thomas Stocker, Co-Chair of AR5 WG1:-

http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/12/stockers-earmarks/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revealing chain of events re AR5 confidentiality, Phil Jones and Thomas Stocker, Co-Chair of AR5 WG1:-</p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/12/stockers-earmarks/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/12/stockers-earmarks/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77646</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 21:27:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77646</guid>
		<description>Hilarious that AR5 is being lambasted already:-

http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/19/neukom-and-the-steig-overunder/

&quot;Unless you are a climate scientist, you would probably not describe the paleoclimate reconstruction as cohering particularly well with the various models, but that’s a story for another day.

In the running text of the draft AR5, Neukom et al is cited on several occasions, including as authority for the observation that SH summer temperatures in the Medieval Warm Period (you know, the one that is supposedly regionally restricted to Greenland and a few counties in England) were “mostly warmer than the 20th century climatology”:&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hilarious that AR5 is being lambasted already:-</p>
<p><a href="http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/19/neukom-and-the-steig-overunder/" rel="nofollow">http://climateaudit.org/2012/01/19/neukom-and-the-steig-overunder/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Unless you are a climate scientist, you would probably not describe the paleoclimate reconstruction as cohering particularly well with the various models, but that’s a story for another day.</p>
<p>In the running text of the draft AR5, Neukom et al is cited on several occasions, including as authority for the observation that SH summer temperatures in the Medieval Warm Period (you know, the one that is supposedly regionally restricted to Greenland and a few counties in England) were “mostly warmer than the 20th century climatology”:&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/01/in-the-beginning-was-the-warming/comment-page-1/#comment-77644</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jan 2012 20:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=12431#comment-77644</guid>
		<description>More on Project Hayes here
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6286915/Project-Hayes-a-lesson-for-wind-farm-industry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More on Project Hayes here<br />
<a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6286915/Project-Hayes-a-lesson-for-wind-farm-industry" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6286915/Project-Hayes-a-lesson-for-wind-farm-industry</a></p>
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