Comments on: Levitus rewarmed

By: Richard Treadgold

Richard Treadgold — Fri, 04 May 2012 08:51:44 +0000

Bob Maginnis,

I say that it isn’t oddly complex, that even if only the top millimeter is affected by downward LWIR, it reduces losses from the Sun warmed deeper water, thus allowing a warmer Ocean.

If it was simply a matter of two competing flows of heat energy, I’d agree with you. But when you read the article “Why greenhouse gases heat the ocean” at Real Climate, it concentrates on the top millimetre of the water as though it was a different phase of matter. It tries to persuade us that even a small flow of heat in the “opposite” direction foils the major flux from below.

But eventually you get the strong impression you’re in the presence of a snow job. What do you think? Does it persuade you?

For how can it be that merely leaning over the bath will warm it?

By: rob taylor

rob taylor — Fri, 04 May 2012 05:56:32 +0000

Richard, stick to your day job – which is what, exactly?

[Juvenile ad hom removed. – RT]

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Fri, 04 May 2012 00:59:36 +0000

Other attractions at the AGW Circus: Michael Mann’s House of Mirrors, Phil Jones’ Card Tricks and Madame Pachauri’s Fortune Telling Tarot Card tent.

/Silliness

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Fri, 04 May 2012 00:40:31 +0000

The Modeling Clown Troupe lighten things up a bit – one of my favourites.

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Fri, 04 May 2012 00:30:16 +0000

BTW David, top billing at the IPCC Freak Show tent includes: the Uncertainty Monster, the Sea Level Spectre, the Feedback Freak and the Glacier Ghoul.

Go on down there – it’s a hoot.

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Thu, 03 May 2012 22:56:14 +0000

Bob Maginnis, actually it’s only the top 10 Microns (10/1000 of a millimetre) that are impinged, see plot:-

http://omlc.ogi.edu/spectra/water/gif/hale73.gif

Absorption is also 1000 times less than in the solar IR range at 1 micron WL (absorption coefficient on the left scale is a DECREASING scale).

Reduced losses (heat is still lost) are only by conduction (sensible heat Hs) but radiative (Rnl) and evaporative (latent heat Hl) losses are by far the more significant (evaporation actually enhanced). See Table 5 ‘Cool-skin and warm-layer effects on sea surface temperature’ Fairall 1996:-

ftp://ftp.etl.noaa.gov/users/cfairall/wcrp_wgsf/computer_programs/cor3_0/95JC03190.pdf

To posit reduced oceanic heat loss by LWIR is contradictory to the core tenet of AGW (increased evaporation and therefore increased oceanic heat loss).

By: David

David — Thu, 03 May 2012 22:53:43 +0000

Well said Richard C.
Good thread- I learned a lot. Thanks to all of you for your efforts.I admire your patience

By: Bob D

Bob D — Thu, 03 May 2012 22:33:27 +0000

True enough, but the effect is miniscule, compared with the higher radiative energy transfer (4th power law) and increased evaporation.
The reality is that the greenhouse effect and heat transport from the oceans to space is all about water vapour, not CO2.

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Thu, 03 May 2012 21:05:49 +0000

“Shall I hold my breath until his reply?” – No.

The request for citations has been made ad infinitum at Hot topic but all you get is:-

Crickets………birds chirping…………

By: Richard C (NZ)

Richard C (NZ) — Thu, 03 May 2012 20:49:06 +0000

Ken you remind me of a one-trick-pony unable to learn new tricks that has lost the ability to give a commanding performance. . You have been unable to take on – let alone understand (you at least admit you are “confused”) – audience requests to refine and expand your act to make it worthwhile because you are obsessed with your one and only but now stale routine.

Unfortunately for you Ken your act has been seen over and over at the fairground but now it’s of limited value. Only a dedicated but small fan base is now willing to pay to see it at the AGW circus but it has not held the crowd’s attention (it’s just not a “crowd pleaser” Ken).

I suggest Ken, that you go away and learn some new tricks because the crowd has gone down to the IPCC’s freak show tent where they’ve got some really whacky stuff going on.