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	<title>Comments on: Chief sceptics explain everything about climate denial</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 23:45:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marian</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-103861</link>
		<dc:creator>Marian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2012 01:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-103861</guid>
		<description>Yes Richard.

We see that with the UN.

The UN unable to distribute its aid. Still stuck in its warehouses. While Smaller Aid providers have efficiently distributed their aid.

The complaints from the E. Timorese Govt a few years ago was further proof of the Big RORT the UN Aid program is. 90% of UN aid monies to E. Timor going back to the UN in ADMIN Fees!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes Richard.</p>
<p>We see that with the UN.</p>
<p>The UN unable to distribute its aid. Still stuck in its warehouses. While Smaller Aid providers have efficiently distributed their aid.</p>
<p>The complaints from the E. Timorese Govt a few years ago was further proof of the Big RORT the UN Aid program is. 90% of UN aid monies to E. Timor going back to the UN in ADMIN Fees!</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Jowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102455</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Jowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 02:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102455</guid>
		<description>Thanks Douglas - a good article.
&lt;i&gt;Low rates have allowed borrowers who will never be able to repay their debts to limp on, BIS said, encouraging &quot;wasteful support of effectively insolvent borrowers and banks&quot;. &lt;/i&gt;

.... kicking the can down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Douglas &#8211; a good article.<br />
<i>Low rates have allowed borrowers who will never be able to repay their debts to limp on, BIS said, encouraging &#8220;wasteful support of effectively insolvent borrowers and banks&#8221;. </i></p>
<p>&#8230;. kicking the can down the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102424</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 21:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102424</guid>
		<description>@Mike Jowsey says: 
June 24, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Mike good to note that maybe one of these is awake – notice this from the Bank for International Settlements:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9352844/Bank-of-Englands-money-printing-is-putting-UK-economy-at-risk.html

A good observation I think.
Douglas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike Jowsey says:<br />
June 24, 2012 at 9:13 pm<br />
Mike good to note that maybe one of these is awake – notice this from the Bank for International Settlements:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9352844/Bank-of-Englands-money-printing-is-putting-UK-economy-at-risk.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9352844/Bank-of-Englands-money-printing-is-putting-UK-economy-at-risk.html</a></p>
<p>A good observation I think.<br />
Douglas</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102349</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102349</guid>
		<description>Mike
Aha - yes Mike Keiser puts it well in that clip. Seems like the only way for the &quot;Pollies&quot; to learn is through bloody rioting I&#039;m sad to conclude. Ambrose Evans Pritchard of the Daily Telegraph has it summed up but is not so direct ha ha.

Douglas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike<br />
Aha &#8211; yes Mike Keiser puts it well in that clip. Seems like the only way for the &#8220;Pollies&#8221; to learn is through bloody rioting I&#8217;m sad to conclude. Ambrose Evans Pritchard of the Daily Telegraph has it summed up but is not so direct ha ha.</p>
<p>Douglas</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Jowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102347</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Jowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102347</guid>
		<description>Yup Douglas, we are not the only ones onto it.  Watch this 3-min clip made today...  &quot;Banks are dead&quot;.  Chilling.  The leaves are falling, my friend.  Buy gold.  Oh wait....  sorry, too late.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=F2kfFmGt8Yc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup Douglas, we are not the only ones onto it.  Watch this 3-min clip made today&#8230;  &#8220;Banks are dead&#8221;.  Chilling.  The leaves are falling, my friend.  Buy gold.  Oh wait&#8230;.  sorry, too late.<br />
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=F2kfFmGt8Yc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=F2kfFmGt8Yc</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102345</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 09:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102345</guid>
		<description>Richard C - I haven&#039;t read &quot;Merchants of Doubt&quot;. It would be an interesting exercise to do so.

I think a good chunk of the book is a hatchet job against Fred Singer
My understanding is that Oreskes et al claim that Singer was in the pay of Big Tobacco
I have no idea whether this is true.

However,  I have also heard that he looked into the issue of second hand smoking, and found no statistical evidence that supported the a priori answer the sponsors wanted.

I am more likely to believe the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard C &#8211; I haven&#8217;t read &#8220;Merchants of Doubt&#8221;. It would be an interesting exercise to do so.</p>
<p>I think a good chunk of the book is a hatchet job against Fred Singer<br />
My understanding is that Oreskes et al claim that Singer was in the pay of Big Tobacco<br />
I have no idea whether this is true.</p>
<p>However,  I have also heard that he looked into the issue of second hand smoking, and found no statistical evidence that supported the a priori answer the sponsors wanted.</p>
<p>I am more likely to believe the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102335</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102335</guid>
		<description>Yup Mike you are on to it alright. I have been watching the financial situation pretty closely since about 2008 and it’s apparent that nobody has any answers that they have the courage to follow. Not the bankers, not the politicians, not the economists. It’s “kick the can down the road”. As Maggie Thatcher said “there is a terrible air of Micawberism about”  They (i.e. some people) liken it to arranging the deck chairs on that famous ship of about 1912. But the issue seems to be quite complex now including massive Ponzi schemes of global scale proportions involving banks, insurance, credit swaps, the lunatic European zero carbon policies as well as the enormous implications of global trading imbalances. It puts the European carbon credit scam into proportion and in turn, our pathetic fixation on the “green” economy. Sheesh!

Douglas</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup Mike you are on to it alright. I have been watching the financial situation pretty closely since about 2008 and it’s apparent that nobody has any answers that they have the courage to follow. Not the bankers, not the politicians, not the economists. It’s “kick the can down the road”. As Maggie Thatcher said “there is a terrible air of Micawberism about”  They (i.e. some people) liken it to arranging the deck chairs on that famous ship of about 1912. But the issue seems to be quite complex now including massive Ponzi schemes of global scale proportions involving banks, insurance, credit swaps, the lunatic European zero carbon policies as well as the enormous implications of global trading imbalances. It puts the European carbon credit scam into proportion and in turn, our pathetic fixation on the “green” economy. Sheesh!</p>
<p>Douglas</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102334</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102334</guid>
		<description>Curiously, &#039;Merchants of Doubt&#039; (Book) by Naomi Oreskes.is taken as something of a reputable reference text http://hot-topic.co.nz/the-bad-news-and-the-good/

But I do not see Thomas in comments demanding that &quot;the findings of the book&quot; (as Gareth puts it) be peer-reviewed as was his criteria for Andy&#039;s quote from the synopsis of Nina Pierpont’s book ‘Wind Turbine Syndrome A Report on a Natural Experiment’.

Gareth reviewing &#039;Merchants of Doudt&#039; in the above-linked post:-

&lt;blockquote&gt;The shift in &lt;strong&gt;the community of global warming deniers&lt;/strong&gt; from merely &lt;strong&gt;attacking mainstream climate scientists&lt;/strong&gt; to &lt;strong&gt;alleging their involvement in criminal activity&lt;/strong&gt; Oreskes and Conway describe as &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;“an unsurprising but alarming development”&lt;/em&gt; in the continuing campaign to discredit the science&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So THAT&#039;S what all us &quot;deniers&quot; have been up to - good to know.

And quoting a Hollywood celeb erases any doubt on the issue apparently:-

&lt;blockquote&gt;It has appeared in recent years that the science of global warming was also on the way to prevailing. &lt;strong&gt;They note, for example, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger saying in 2005: “The debate is over. We know the science. We see the threat posed by changes in our climate.”&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How can we possibly continue our &quot;alarming&quot; &quot;campaign to discredit the science&quot; when Arne declares &quot;the debate is over&quot;?

It&#039;s unthinkable (and Gareth obviously doesn&#039;t) to doubt the wisdom of such a celebrated persona as Arnold Schwarzenegger whose scientific understanding of the effects of anabolic steroids in combination with intense resistance training is legendary, albeit far removed from the physics of climate science but hey - Arne said it - that clinches it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curiously, &#8216;Merchants of Doubt&#8217; (Book) by Naomi Oreskes.is taken as something of a reputable reference text <a href="http://hot-topic.co.nz/the-bad-news-and-the-good/" rel="nofollow">http://hot-topic.co.nz/the-bad-news-and-the-good/</a></p>
<p>But I do not see Thomas in comments demanding that &#8220;the findings of the book&#8221; (as Gareth puts it) be peer-reviewed as was his criteria for Andy&#8217;s quote from the synopsis of Nina Pierpont’s book ‘Wind Turbine Syndrome A Report on a Natural Experiment’.</p>
<p>Gareth reviewing &#8216;Merchants of Doudt&#8217; in the above-linked post:-</p>
<blockquote><p>The shift in <strong>the community of global warming deniers</strong> from merely <strong>attacking mainstream climate scientists</strong> to <strong>alleging their involvement in criminal activity</strong> Oreskes and Conway describe as <strong><em>“an unsurprising but alarming development”</em> in the continuing campaign to discredit the science</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>So THAT&#8217;S what all us &#8220;deniers&#8221; have been up to &#8211; good to know.</p>
<p>And quoting a Hollywood celeb erases any doubt on the issue apparently:-</p>
<blockquote><p>It has appeared in recent years that the science of global warming was also on the way to prevailing. <strong>They note, for example, California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger saying in 2005: “The debate is over. We know the science. We see the threat posed by changes in our climate.”</strong></p></blockquote>
<p>How can we possibly continue our &#8220;alarming&#8221; &#8220;campaign to discredit the science&#8221; when Arne declares &#8220;the debate is over&#8221;?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s unthinkable (and Gareth obviously doesn&#8217;t) to doubt the wisdom of such a celebrated persona as Arnold Schwarzenegger whose scientific understanding of the effects of anabolic steroids in combination with intense resistance training is legendary, albeit far removed from the physics of climate science but hey &#8211; Arne said it &#8211; that clinches it.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102328</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102328</guid>
		<description>This is O/T but worthy of note

&lt;b&gt;Climate Change Response (Low
Carbon Economic Development)
Amendment Bill
Member’s Bill (Gareth Hughes - NZ Green Party)
&lt;/b&gt;
http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/6CA1C6F5-6510-4733-9D87-E5C470589C2F/225062/ClimateChangeResponseLowCarbonEconomicDevelopmentA.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is O/T but worthy of note</p>
<p><b>Climate Change Response (Low<br />
Carbon Economic Development)<br />
Amendment Bill<br />
Member’s Bill (Gareth Hughes &#8211; NZ Green Party)<br />
</b><br />
<a href="http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/6CA1C6F5-6510-4733-9D87-E5C470589C2F/225062/ClimateChangeResponseLowCarbonEconomicDevelopmentA.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyres/6CA1C6F5-6510-4733-9D87-E5C470589C2F/225062/ClimateChangeResponseLowCarbonEconomicDevelopmentA.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/chief-sceptics-explain-everything-about-climate-denial/comment-page-1/#comment-102327</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 06:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=14030#comment-102327</guid>
		<description>&quot;Science&quot; has a different meaning there though. For example a popular paper at HT and SkS is: 

&#039;Model-based evidence of deep-ocean heat uptake during surface-temperature hiatus periods&#039;

    * Gerald A. Meehl,
    * Julie M. Arblaster,
    * John T. Fasullo,
    * Aixue Hu
    * &amp; Kevin E. Trenberth, 2011

They&#039;re very big on &quot;model-based evidence&quot; and the paper seems to be read as fact. Never mind that it&#039;s highly questionable and questioning of it (and what&#039;s missing from it) will get you tagged &quot;denier&quot; very quickly.

I doubt too that raising the topic of NIWA&#039;s NZT7 step changes under dispute by NZCSET would attract any knowledgeable comment (they wouldn&#039;t have a clue) or BOM&#039;s radical step methodology in the AU equivalent ACORN - SAT (even OZ sceptics are struggling with that) where BOM have adjusted seasonal change OUT of location series.

Ironic that in the latter case, using the &quot;denier&quot; tag would be baseless on their part due to their complete ignorance of the topic but they would as in the former take ACORN -SAT at face value and disbar questioning of it (that&#039;s &quot;sowing seeds of doubt&quot; apparently)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Science&#8221; has a different meaning there though. For example a popular paper at HT and SkS is: </p>
<p>&#8216;Model-based evidence of deep-ocean heat uptake during surface-temperature hiatus periods&#8217;</p>
<p>    * Gerald A. Meehl,<br />
    * Julie M. Arblaster,<br />
    * John T. Fasullo,<br />
    * Aixue Hu<br />
    * &amp; Kevin E. Trenberth, 2011</p>
<p>They&#8217;re very big on &#8220;model-based evidence&#8221; and the paper seems to be read as fact. Never mind that it&#8217;s highly questionable and questioning of it (and what&#8217;s missing from it) will get you tagged &#8220;denier&#8221; very quickly.</p>
<p>I doubt too that raising the topic of NIWA&#8217;s NZT7 step changes under dispute by NZCSET would attract any knowledgeable comment (they wouldn&#8217;t have a clue) or BOM&#8217;s radical step methodology in the AU equivalent ACORN &#8211; SAT (even OZ sceptics are struggling with that) where BOM have adjusted seasonal change OUT of location series.</p>
<p>Ironic that in the latter case, using the &#8220;denier&#8221; tag would be baseless on their part due to their complete ignorance of the topic but they would as in the former take ACORN -SAT at face value and disbar questioning of it (that&#8217;s &#8220;sowing seeds of doubt&#8221; apparently)</p>
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