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	<title>Comments on: Pine beetle doom-sayers barking up the wrong tree</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 07:48:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-103191</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 02:15:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-103191</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the Stuff editors ever read the comments section on their stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the Stuff editors ever read the comments section on their stories.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Jowsey</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-103188</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Jowsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2012 01:45:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-103188</guid>
		<description>AAAAARRRRGGGHH!!!!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7193129/What-global-warming-really-looks-like?comment_msg=posted#post_comment

&lt;i&gt;Warmer-than-usual winters also allow tree-killing mountain pine beetles to survive the winter and attack Western forests, leaving behind dry wood to fuel wildfires earlier in the season, Running said.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AAAAARRRRGGGHH!!!!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7193129/What-global-warming-really-looks-like?comment_msg=posted#post_comment" rel="nofollow">http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/7193129/What-global-warming-really-looks-like?comment_msg=posted#post_comment</a></p>
<p><i>Warmer-than-usual winters also allow tree-killing mountain pine beetles to survive the winter and attack Western forests, leaving behind dry wood to fuel wildfires earlier in the season, Running said.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-103019</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 01:38:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-103019</guid>
		<description>Hey Billy, you&#039;re way ahead of the pack (MH is Matthew Huber):-

&lt;blockquote&gt; &quot;&lt;strong&gt;At the point where the average global temperature rise hits 10°C&lt;/strong&gt;, &quot;even Siberia reaches values exceeding anything in the present-day tropics&quot; and many populated parts of the globe might become, if habitable at all, &lt;strong&gt;places where the relatively affluent would likely find themselves &quot;imprisoned&quot; in air-conditioned spaces and where &quot;power failures would become life-threatening.&quot; &lt;/strong&gt;Lacking access to AC, the world&#039;s poor would have little choice but to flee. &lt;strong&gt;Even &quot;modest&quot; global warming,  &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Huber and Sherwood conclude, could &quot;expose large fractions of the population to unprecedented heat stress.&quot;&lt;/strong&gt;

...MH: I get hate mail and death threats on a regular basis. I&#039;m used to thatl...I have seen some commentary by nonscientists on blogs and most of them say that I&#039;m just another &quot;cap-and-tax&quot; green freak who wants big government and to outlaw guns. 
...MJ: &lt;strong&gt;If we do ever reach 12 degrees warming, what might that look like on the ground?&lt;/strong&gt; Give me your &lt;strong&gt;sci-fi movie scenario&lt;/strong&gt;.

MH: &lt;strong&gt;My nightmare&lt;/strong&gt;. I&#039;m in Oklahoma on a hot summer day. Under a heat lamp. Running. Wrapped in plastic.

MJ: This could clearly be a selective biological pressure on humans. &lt;strong&gt;Would we end up eventually evolving to deal with greater heat&lt;/strong&gt;, as you report that mammals did during the Eocene era?

MH: &lt;strong&gt;The most direct way for humans to respond physiologically, which would take thousands of years &lt;/strong&gt;if at all (we are most likely to change our behaviors) &lt;strong&gt;is to get small and skinny&lt;/strong&gt;, to decrease our volume and maximize our surface area &lt;strong&gt;so we can lose heat more effectively&lt;/strong&gt;&quot; &lt;/blockquote&gt;

http://tomnelson.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/mar-2012-purdue-warmist-matthew-huber.html

The name &quot;Sherwood&quot; rings a bell too (Steven Sherwood, Hubers colleague at Australia&#039;s University of New South Wales, taken to task by Jo Nova on occasions)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Billy, you&#8217;re way ahead of the pack (MH is Matthew Huber):-</p>
<blockquote><p> &#8220;<strong>At the point where the average global temperature rise hits 10°C</strong>, &#8220;even Siberia reaches values exceeding anything in the present-day tropics&#8221; and many populated parts of the globe might become, if habitable at all, <strong>places where the relatively affluent would likely find themselves &#8220;imprisoned&#8221; in air-conditioned spaces and where &#8220;power failures would become life-threatening.&#8221; </strong>Lacking access to AC, the world&#8217;s poor would have little choice but to flee. <strong>Even &#8220;modest&#8221; global warming,  </strong><strong>Huber and Sherwood conclude, could &#8220;expose large fractions of the population to unprecedented heat stress.&#8221;</strong></p>
<p>&#8230;MH: I get hate mail and death threats on a regular basis. I&#8217;m used to thatl&#8230;I have seen some commentary by nonscientists on blogs and most of them say that I&#8217;m just another &#8220;cap-and-tax&#8221; green freak who wants big government and to outlaw guns.<br />
&#8230;MJ: <strong>If we do ever reach 12 degrees warming, what might that look like on the ground?</strong> Give me your <strong>sci-fi movie scenario</strong>.</p>
<p>MH: <strong>My nightmare</strong>. I&#8217;m in Oklahoma on a hot summer day. Under a heat lamp. Running. Wrapped in plastic.</p>
<p>MJ: This could clearly be a selective biological pressure on humans. <strong>Would we end up eventually evolving to deal with greater heat</strong>, as you report that mammals did during the Eocene era?</p>
<p>MH: <strong>The most direct way for humans to respond physiologically, which would take thousands of years </strong>if at all (we are most likely to change our behaviors) <strong>is to get small and skinny</strong>, to decrease our volume and maximize our surface area <strong>so we can lose heat more effectively</strong>&#8221; </p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://tomnelson.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/mar-2012-purdue-warmist-matthew-huber.html" rel="nofollow">http://tomnelson.blogspot.co.nz/2012/06/mar-2012-purdue-warmist-matthew-huber.html</a></p>
<p>The name &#8220;Sherwood&#8221; rings a bell too (Steven Sherwood, Hubers colleague at Australia&#8217;s University of New South Wales, taken to task by Jo Nova on occasions)</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-103005</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-103005</guid>
		<description>I wonder how the &quot;largest pine-beetle epidemic in recorded history&quot; is faring in the wildfires?

Maybe a cure for the epidemic has been found, or perhaps it&#039;s been there all the time.

Secondary forest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_growth_forest

A secondary forest (or second-growth forest) is a forest or woodland area which has re-grown after a major disturbance such as fire, insect infestation, timber harvest or windthrow, until a long enough period has passed so that the effects of the disturbance are no longer evident. It is distinguished from an old-growth forest (primary or primeval forest), which have not undergone such disruptions, as well as third-growth forests that result from severe disruptions in second growth forests.
...
Depending on the forest, the development of primary characteristics may take anywhere from a century to several millennia. Hardwood forests of the eastern United States, for example, can develop primary characteristics in one or two generations of trees, or 150-500 years.
...
It takes a secondary forest typically forty to 100 years to begin to resemble the original old-growth forest......
....
Today most of the forest of the United States, the eastern part of North America and Europe consist of secondary forest.

Well how &#039;bout that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how the &#8220;largest pine-beetle epidemic in recorded history&#8221; is faring in the wildfires?</p>
<p>Maybe a cure for the epidemic has been found, or perhaps it&#8217;s been there all the time.</p>
<p>Secondary forest <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_growth_forest" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_growth_forest</a></p>
<p>A secondary forest (or second-growth forest) is a forest or woodland area which has re-grown after a major disturbance such as fire, insect infestation, timber harvest or windthrow, until a long enough period has passed so that the effects of the disturbance are no longer evident. It is distinguished from an old-growth forest (primary or primeval forest), which have not undergone such disruptions, as well as third-growth forests that result from severe disruptions in second growth forests.<br />
&#8230;<br />
Depending on the forest, the development of primary characteristics may take anywhere from a century to several millennia. Hardwood forests of the eastern United States, for example, can develop primary characteristics in one or two generations of trees, or 150-500 years.<br />
&#8230;<br />
It takes a secondary forest typically forty to 100 years to begin to resemble the original old-growth forest&#8230;&#8230;<br />
&#8230;.<br />
Today most of the forest of the United States, the eastern part of North America and Europe consist of secondary forest.</p>
<p>Well how &#8217;bout that?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-103000</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 22:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-103000</guid>
		<description>&quot;niche market&quot; - that&#039;s a good crack.
Careful Andy, the fun police are never far away...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;niche market&#8221; &#8211; that&#8217;s a good crack.<br />
Careful Andy, the fun police are never far away&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-102912</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-102912</guid>
		<description>RT maybe we could setup a dieting thread?
Looks like a niche market to me.

Does my denier arse look big in this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RT maybe we could setup a dieting thread?<br />
Looks like a niche market to me.</p>
<p>Does my denier arse look big in this?</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-102906</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:49:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-102906</guid>
		<description>Hi RC,I find insects etc.very interesting.I see there are tarantulas going to being kept and bred in Wellington.I love those spiders.I also have an affection for snakes.Have spent time in OZ,and handled a few.Tame ones of coarse.They are easier to handle than those fat bottomed girls you talk about.Is it just me,or has Mann,Hansen,Jones,Briffa et at become quiet?The moonbat seems to be stirred up.Mainly over the success,(failure)of Rio+20.The warmists surely must feel they&#039;re in a corner.Who did we send on that junket?Oh,AK,don&#039;t worry about a wee bit of fat on you,I wish I had some.OT,in New Plymouth,the tui has been coming back over the last 2 or 3 years.They are singing in the trees each morning.Not sure if its co2 or global warming,but they sure are a welcome sight.
Sorry,Im not a climatologist,so can&#039;t add anything about forcings,feedbacks,water vapour,co2 and the likes,so I leave that to you experts.I have to go completely off my observations.Sea water quality has increased 10 fold in my 45 yrs around NZ harbours.The water around the Tui oil field here is prestine.Fish,seals etc.are in abundance right alongside the FPSO.But naturally that doesn&#039;t get reported.No scare tactics there.Looks like the Kupe field is going to expand.That is a bonus for all NZ.O.K.guys,I&#039;ve dribbled on enough.AK,if you have a bit extra fat,send it my way.Just not in the way of a fat bottomed girl.At my age I couldn&#039;t handle it.Have a good night,cheers,Billy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi RC,I find insects etc.very interesting.I see there are tarantulas going to being kept and bred in Wellington.I love those spiders.I also have an affection for snakes.Have spent time in OZ,and handled a few.Tame ones of coarse.They are easier to handle than those fat bottomed girls you talk about.Is it just me,or has Mann,Hansen,Jones,Briffa et at become quiet?The moonbat seems to be stirred up.Mainly over the success,(failure)of Rio+20.The warmists surely must feel they&#8217;re in a corner.Who did we send on that junket?Oh,AK,don&#8217;t worry about a wee bit of fat on you,I wish I had some.OT,in New Plymouth,the tui has been coming back over the last 2 or 3 years.They are singing in the trees each morning.Not sure if its co2 or global warming,but they sure are a welcome sight.<br />
Sorry,Im not a climatologist,so can&#8217;t add anything about forcings,feedbacks,water vapour,co2 and the likes,so I leave that to you experts.I have to go completely off my observations.Sea water quality has increased 10 fold in my 45 yrs around NZ harbours.The water around the Tui oil field here is prestine.Fish,seals etc.are in abundance right alongside the FPSO.But naturally that doesn&#8217;t get reported.No scare tactics there.Looks like the Kupe field is going to expand.That is a bonus for all NZ.O.K.guys,I&#8217;ve dribbled on enough.AK,if you have a bit extra fat,send it my way.Just not in the way of a fat bottomed girl.At my age I couldn&#8217;t handle it.Have a good night,cheers,Billy</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-102887</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 05:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-102887</guid>
		<description>Would beetles be more acceptable to your palette Andy?

Some recipes here http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2010/08/eat-the-beetles-with-special-bug-recipes.html

Also, entomophagy –the art of insect eating.http://www.food-insects.com/

Some Edible Species http://www.food-insects.com/edible%20species.htm

Is that a North American Mountain pine beetle in Display Case 4?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would beetles be more acceptable to your palette Andy?</p>
<p>Some recipes here <a href="http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2010/08/eat-the-beetles-with-special-bug-recipes.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2010/08/eat-the-beetles-with-special-bug-recipes.html</a></p>
<p>Also, entomophagy –the art of insect eating.<a href="http://www.food-insects.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.food-insects.com/</a></p>
<p>Some Edible Species <a href="http://www.food-insects.com/edible%20species.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.food-insects.com/edible%20species.htm</a></p>
<p>Is that a North American Mountain pine beetle in Display Case 4?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-102865</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-102865</guid>
		<description>I still have the image of Jamie Oliver making Chicken Nuggets by grinding up chicken skin and offal in a blender.

I&#039;ve never wanted to see Chicken Nuggets (or Turkey Swizlers) ever again in my life.

Mind you, I think a visit to an abattoir can have a similar effect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still have the image of Jamie Oliver making Chicken Nuggets by grinding up chicken skin and offal in a blender.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never wanted to see Chicken Nuggets (or Turkey Swizlers) ever again in my life.</p>
<p>Mind you, I think a visit to an abattoir can have a similar effect.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/06/pine-beetle-doom-sayers-barking-up-the-wrong-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-102864</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=13956#comment-102864</guid>
		<description>Bob D if you&#039;re lurking.

I&#039;ve been in an &quot;exchange&quot; (only one warmist taker, the sceptics whimped out) at JoNova arguing that polynomial trends are more appropriate for fluctuating temperature data than linear regressions and presenting the case.

The Microsoft Chart guide being the most relevant in the following link but there&#039;s up and down thread stuff too http://joannenova.com.au/2012/06/has-north-victoria-cooled-not-warmed-and-is-that-a-solar-cycle-signal-we-see/#comment-1073982

Grist perhaps for our ongoing stoush with Ken Perrott if he turns up again.

Oh yes, before I forget - boring beetles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob D if you&#8217;re lurking.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been in an &#8220;exchange&#8221; (only one warmist taker, the sceptics whimped out) at JoNova arguing that polynomial trends are more appropriate for fluctuating temperature data than linear regressions and presenting the case.</p>
<p>The Microsoft Chart guide being the most relevant in the following link but there&#8217;s up and down thread stuff too <a href="http://joannenova.com.au/2012/06/has-north-victoria-cooled-not-warmed-and-is-that-a-solar-cycle-signal-we-see/#comment-1073982" rel="nofollow">http://joannenova.com.au/2012/06/has-north-victoria-cooled-not-warmed-and-is-that-a-solar-cycle-signal-we-see/#comment-1073982</a></p>
<p>Grist perhaps for our ongoing stoush with Ken Perrott if he turns up again.</p>
<p>Oh yes, before I forget &#8211; boring beetles.</p>
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