<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Affidavit AWFWY wrong</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 01:33:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-118400</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 19:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-118400</guid>
		<description>“The legal profession has not always been able to take the best out of science and apply it to practical law&quot;

Hence:-

&#039;Reference Manual on Scientific Evidence&#039;
Second Edition
Federal Judicial Center 2000

http://www.fjc.gov/public/pdf.nsf/lookup/sciman00.pdf/$file/sciman00.pdf

Now in third edition behind paywall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“The legal profession has not always been able to take the best out of science and apply it to practical law&#8221;</p>
<p>Hence:-</p>
<p>&#8216;Reference Manual on Scientific Evidence&#8217;<br />
Second Edition<br />
Federal Judicial Center 2000</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fjc.gov/public/pdf.nsf/lookup/sciman00.pdf/$file/sciman00.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.fjc.gov/public/pdf.nsf/lookup/sciman00.pdf/$file/sciman00.pdf</a></p>
<p>Now in third edition behind paywall.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stanley</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-118356</link>
		<dc:creator>Stanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2012 12:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-118356</guid>
		<description>&quot;The legal profession has not always been able to take the best out of science and apply it to practical law. Conversely science has not always appreciated the nature of legal proof. The early use of dna evidence in criminal proceedings is an example. Looking back at the way statistics and probabilities were used shows that in some cases lawyers and scientists were not looking at the science the same way. Although some scientists bemoaned this mismatch the result was that lawyers forced scientists to be more rigorous when their opinions and judgments were tested in courts and often found wanting. Because science hadn’t done so itself the legal profession brutally weeded out speculation from fact. Science benefited from this rigour.&quot; – Dr David Whitehouse

So much for those (usually neither scientists nor lawyers) who dogmatically declare that science should NEVER be tested in the Courts. If it cannot be raised to the bar which every citizen needs to face in their everyday actions, then is it really science?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The legal profession has not always been able to take the best out of science and apply it to practical law. Conversely science has not always appreciated the nature of legal proof. The early use of dna evidence in criminal proceedings is an example. Looking back at the way statistics and probabilities were used shows that in some cases lawyers and scientists were not looking at the science the same way. Although some scientists bemoaned this mismatch the result was that lawyers forced scientists to be more rigorous when their opinions and judgments were tested in courts and often found wanting. Because science hadn’t done so itself the legal profession brutally weeded out speculation from fact. Science benefited from this rigour.&#8221; – Dr David Whitehouse</p>
<p>So much for those (usually neither scientists nor lawyers) who dogmatically declare that science should NEVER be tested in the Courts. If it cannot be raised to the bar which every citizen needs to face in their everyday actions, then is it really science?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Internet silos become ideological ghettos &#124; Secular News Daily</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-117668</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet silos become ideological ghettos &#124; Secular News Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Sep 2012 04:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-117668</guid>
		<description>[...] if (daym Just six days ago the NZ High Court released its judgement on the attempt by local climate change deniers/contrarians/sceptics/crackpots to get a judicial overthrow of the NZ temperature record managed by NIWA scientists (see New [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] if (daym Just six days ago the NZ High Court released its judgement on the attempt by local climate change deniers/contrarians/sceptics/crackpots to get a judicial overthrow of the NZ temperature record managed by NIWA scientists (see New [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Internet silos become ideological ghettos &#124; Open Parachute</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116667</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet silos become ideological ghettos &#124; Open Parachute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 02:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116667</guid>
		<description>[...] six days ago the NZ High Court released its judgement on the attempt by local climate change deniers/contrarians/sceptics/crackpots to get a judicial overthrow of the NZ temperature record managed by NIWA scientists (see New [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] six days ago the NZ High Court released its judgement on the attempt by local climate change deniers/contrarians/sceptics/crackpots to get a judicial overthrow of the NZ temperature record managed by NIWA scientists (see New [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alexander K</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116649</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116649</guid>
		<description>I suspect that R Taylor was annoyed by my comment about justice, but it has to remain a suspicion as it&#039;s quite difficult to discern as to whom his remarks were addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that R Taylor was annoyed by my comment about justice, but it has to remain a suspicion as it&#8217;s quite difficult to discern as to whom his remarks were addressed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116642</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 00:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116642</guid>
		<description>Really? I&#039;m sure you would be singing a different tune had NZCSET actually won its ill-prepared case...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really? I&#8217;m sure you would be singing a different tune had NZCSET actually won its ill-prepared case&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116641</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:52:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116641</guid>
		<description>Ken, I enjoyed your remark &lt;a href=&quot;http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/climate-change-deniers-false-deep-distress-fools-no-one/#comment-29774&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
But the frantic activity on Treagold’s blog, their blinkered discussion and hostility to “outsiders” really demonstrates how such Internet silos can become ideological ghettos.&quot;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

and then scrolled up to see Cedric&#039;s comment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I enjoyed your remark <a href="http://openparachute.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/climate-change-deniers-false-deep-distress-fools-no-one/#comment-29774" rel="nofollow">here</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
But the frantic activity on Treagold’s blog, their blinkered discussion and hostility to “outsiders” really demonstrates how such Internet silos can become ideological ghettos.&#8221;
</p></blockquote>
<p>and then scrolled up to see Cedric&#8217;s comment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob D</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116634</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 23:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116634</guid>
		<description>Poor Ken.  He &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; doesn&#039;t get it, and tries vainly to make his tiny point about the wording in one sentence.  RT has admitted he could have worded it better.  Happy now?

AWFWY showed that the steep warming trend was purely the result of NIWA&#039;s adjustments.  Each station was presented in turn, unadjusted versus adjusted, and everybody saw the effects of the adjustments - almost always in the same direction, introducing a warming trend.  No adjustments for UHI even though almost all the sites are urban - many people commented on this.  

The station metadata didn&#039;t show reasons for the adjustments, and NIWA wasn&#039;t telling.  True, here and there there were stations at different altitudes, but the adjustments were inconsistent.  Kelburn is higher than Thorndon, and the adjustment makes the trend steeper - all well and good, but Mangere is lower than Albert Park, and the adjustment there went the other way, again making the trend steeper.  Same for Hokitika, Aero is higher than the Town site (as it was then - NIWA discovered an error in the published data) and once again instead of following the expected altitude adjustment the actual adjustment went the other way.  

So once again, our question was - why the adjustments?  What was the reasoning behind each one?  It was a real shock, to be honest, when they eventually had to admit that they didn&#039;t know.

Remember, at that time we had little to work with - NIWA weren&#039;t providing us with the information we needed (not surprising, with hindsight - they had no idea), and the published data provided no clues.  Once we published AWFWY they had no choice but to respond, and at last the New Zealand public got to see what was behind the curtain, when the Review was published in 2010.  Another shock came when we discovered that, even though they continually cited RS93 as their methodology, they didn&#039;t use it in their Review, choosing instead an unpublished, untested (and frankly, primitive) method from a student&#039;s thesis in 1981.

The original 7SS graph was displayed prominently on their website, and the caption gave the impression that these were long-running, completely stable stations we could all rely on.  No mention was made of adjustments, nor that the steep warming trend was the result of these adjustments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Poor Ken.  He <i>still</i> doesn&#8217;t get it, and tries vainly to make his tiny point about the wording in one sentence.  RT has admitted he could have worded it better.  Happy now?</p>
<p>AWFWY showed that the steep warming trend was purely the result of NIWA&#8217;s adjustments.  Each station was presented in turn, unadjusted versus adjusted, and everybody saw the effects of the adjustments &#8211; almost always in the same direction, introducing a warming trend.  No adjustments for UHI even though almost all the sites are urban &#8211; many people commented on this.  </p>
<p>The station metadata didn&#8217;t show reasons for the adjustments, and NIWA wasn&#8217;t telling.  True, here and there there were stations at different altitudes, but the adjustments were inconsistent.  Kelburn is higher than Thorndon, and the adjustment makes the trend steeper &#8211; all well and good, but Mangere is lower than Albert Park, and the adjustment there went the other way, again making the trend steeper.  Same for Hokitika, Aero is higher than the Town site (as it was then &#8211; NIWA discovered an error in the published data) and once again instead of following the expected altitude adjustment the actual adjustment went the other way.  </p>
<p>So once again, our question was &#8211; why the adjustments?  What was the reasoning behind each one?  It was a real shock, to be honest, when they eventually had to admit that they didn&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>Remember, at that time we had little to work with &#8211; NIWA weren&#8217;t providing us with the information we needed (not surprising, with hindsight &#8211; they had no idea), and the published data provided no clues.  Once we published AWFWY they had no choice but to respond, and at last the New Zealand public got to see what was behind the curtain, when the Review was published in 2010.  Another shock came when we discovered that, even though they continually cited RS93 as their methodology, they didn&#8217;t use it in their Review, choosing instead an unpublished, untested (and frankly, primitive) method from a student&#8217;s thesis in 1981.</p>
<p>The original 7SS graph was displayed prominently on their website, and the caption gave the impression that these were long-running, completely stable stations we could all rely on.  No mention was made of adjustments, nor that the steep warming trend was the result of these adjustments.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116626</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116626</guid>
		<description>That URL is not the Google Reader feed BTW so I guess there would be a lot more people than just 6 getting the comments feed - encouraging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That URL is not the Google Reader feed BTW so I guess there would be a lot more people than just 6 getting the comments feed &#8211; encouraging.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/09/affidavit-awfwy-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-116622</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15037#comment-116622</guid>
		<description>I see comment levels at CCG have risen significantly since the J Venning decision. Google Reader stats are at 98.5 comments per week from 15th Aug to 13th Sept but on 7th Sept there were about 85 comments in the one day:-

Details and statistics
Feed URL:	http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/comments/feed/
Posts per week:	98.5
Subscribers:	6
Last updated:	10:04 AM (57 minutes ago) A fetching error was encountered. 

The stats are graphed for the last 30 days and the fetching error is today 13th Sept but that has been resolved and it&#039;s all go again.

Disappointing that there&#039;s only 6 subscribers because anyone not taking the feed is missing a great deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see comment levels at CCG have risen significantly since the J Venning decision. Google Reader stats are at 98.5 comments per week from 15th Aug to 13th Sept but on 7th Sept there were about 85 comments in the one day:-</p>
<p>Details and statistics<br />
Feed URL:	<a href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/comments/feed/" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/comments/feed/</a><br />
Posts per week:	98.5<br />
Subscribers:	6<br />
Last updated:	10:04 AM (57 minutes ago) A fetching error was encountered. </p>
<p>The stats are graphed for the last 30 days and the fetching error is today 13th Sept but that has been resolved and it&#8217;s all go again.</p>
<p>Disappointing that there&#8217;s only 6 subscribers because anyone not taking the feed is missing a great deal.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
