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	<title>Comments on: Nature is the latest living God</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123072</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123072</guid>
		<description>Of course CFCs are man made. However, the &quot;ozone hole scare&quot; was all about CFCs. Your link makes no reference to CFCs.

Specifically, the Wiki page says

 In 1970 Prof. Paul Crutzen pointed out that emissions of nitrous oxide (N2O), a stable, long-lived gas produced by soil bacteria, from the Earth&#039;s surface &lt;b&gt;could&lt;/b&gt; affect the amount of nitric oxide (NO) in the stratosphere. Crutzen showed that nitrous oxide lives long enough to reach the stratosphere, where it is converted into NO. Crutzen then noted that increasing use of fertilizers &lt;b&gt;might&lt;/b&gt; have led to an increase in nitrous oxide emissions over the natural background, which would in turn result in an increase in the amount of NO in the stratosphere. Thus human activity &lt;b&gt;could&lt;/b&gt; have an impact on the stratospheric ozone layer

(My emphasis added)

I don&#039;t see anywhere it saying that the &quot;Ozone Hole&quot; was anthropogenic in origin. Sure, it might have been accentuated by human activity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course CFCs are man made. However, the &#8220;ozone hole scare&#8221; was all about CFCs. Your link makes no reference to CFCs.</p>
<p>Specifically, the Wiki page says</p>
<p> In 1970 Prof. Paul Crutzen pointed out that emissions of nitrous oxide (N2O), a stable, long-lived gas produced by soil bacteria, from the Earth&#8217;s surface <b>could</b> affect the amount of nitric oxide (NO) in the stratosphere. Crutzen showed that nitrous oxide lives long enough to reach the stratosphere, where it is converted into NO. Crutzen then noted that increasing use of fertilizers <b>might</b> have led to an increase in nitrous oxide emissions over the natural background, which would in turn result in an increase in the amount of NO in the stratosphere. Thus human activity <b>could</b> have an impact on the stratospheric ozone layer</p>
<p>(My emphasis added)</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see anywhere it saying that the &#8220;Ozone Hole&#8221; was anthropogenic in origin. Sure, it might have been accentuated by human activity.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123067</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 20:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123067</guid>
		<description>Hmmm... perhaps you think that CFCs are not man-made, Andy? Otherwise, I fail to see the point of your post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230; perhaps you think that CFCs are not man-made, Andy? Otherwise, I fail to see the point of your post.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123058</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123058</guid>
		<description>From the Wikipedia article on Crutzen, I see that his research was all about the effects on Nitrous Oxide on the ozone layer.

However, the &quot;Ozone Hole&quot; scare resulted in the removal of CFCs from refrigerants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Wikipedia article on Crutzen, I see that his research was all about the effects on Nitrous Oxide on the ozone layer.</p>
<p>However, the &#8220;Ozone Hole&#8221; scare resulted in the removal of CFCs from refrigerants.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123005</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123005</guid>
		<description>Au contraire, mon cher, the whole thrust of your side of this thread is that we humans are incapable of affecting Nature, whereas Crutzen is a scientific giant who says we have been doing exactly that for centuries.

Should I really have to spell things out for you? I thought English was your forte?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Au contraire, mon cher, the whole thrust of your side of this thread is that we humans are incapable of affecting Nature, whereas Crutzen is a scientific giant who says we have been doing exactly that for centuries.</p>
<p>Should I really have to spell things out for you? I thought English was your forte?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123003</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123003</guid>
		<description>Well, again, you ignore my question, scorn my response to your question and can&#039;t even keep to your own topic - you promise something about the ozone hole yet cut and paste a dreary piece about the so-called anthropocene. Of all the hubristic intellectual vanities of our age, such as naming a nondescript period for ever after &quot;modern&quot;, the anthropocene might be the shallowest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, again, you ignore my question, scorn my response to your question and can&#8217;t even keep to your own topic &#8211; you promise something about the ozone hole yet cut and paste a dreary piece about the so-called anthropocene. Of all the hubristic intellectual vanities of our age, such as naming a nondescript period for ever after &#8220;modern&#8221;, the anthropocene might be the shallowest.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-123000</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 09:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-123000</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I believe the ozone “hole” is natural, though I haven’t researched it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Your beliefs count for nothing, RT; Paul Crutzen won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work identifying the anthropogenic origin of the ozone hole - read this and weep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_J._Crutzen

&lt;blockquote&gt;To assign a more specific date to the onset of the &quot;anthropocene&quot; seems somewhat arbitrary, but we propose the latter part of the 18th century, although we are aware that alternative proposals can be made (some may even want to include the entire holocene). 

However, &lt;b&gt;we choose this date because, during the past two centuries, the global effects of human activities have become clearly noticeable.&lt;/b&gt; This is the period when data retrieved from glacial ice cores show the beginning of a growth in the atmospheric concentrations of several &quot;greenhouse gases&quot;, in particular CO2 and CH4. Such a starting date also coincides with James Watt&#039;s invention of the steam engine in 1784&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I believe the ozone “hole” is natural, though I haven’t researched it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Your beliefs count for nothing, RT; Paul Crutzen won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his work identifying the anthropogenic origin of the ozone hole &#8211; read this and weep:</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_J._Crutzen" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_J._Crutzen</a></p>
<blockquote><p>To assign a more specific date to the onset of the &#8220;anthropocene&#8221; seems somewhat arbitrary, but we propose the latter part of the 18th century, although we are aware that alternative proposals can be made (some may even want to include the entire holocene). </p>
<p>However, <b>we choose this date because, during the past two centuries, the global effects of human activities have become clearly noticeable.</b> This is the period when data retrieved from glacial ice cores show the beginning of a growth in the atmospheric concentrations of several &#8220;greenhouse gases&#8221;, in particular CO2 and CH4. Such a starting date also coincides with James Watt&#8217;s invention of the steam engine in 1784</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-122993</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-122993</guid>
		<description>Alexander,

Thanks for your comments. I&#039;ve given much thought to them and decided that I&#039;m not responsible for the topics our readers raise for discussion, but I wish to participate, so I do to the best of my limited ability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alexander,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments. I&#8217;ve given much thought to them and decided that I&#8217;m not responsible for the topics our readers raise for discussion, but I wish to participate, so I do to the best of my limited ability.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Richard Treadgold</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-122990</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Treadgold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-122990</guid>
		<description>Rob T,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why bother blogging at all, RT, if you’ve already given up?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You don&#039;t even blog, just snipe at others. What are you talking about - I haven&#039;t given up.

I believe the ozone &quot;hole&quot; is natural, though I haven&#039;t researched it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob T,</p>
<blockquote><p>Why bother blogging at all, RT, if you’ve already given up?</p></blockquote>
<p>You don&#8217;t even blog, just snipe at others. What are you talking about &#8211; I haven&#8217;t given up.</p>
<p>I believe the ozone &#8220;hole&#8221; is natural, though I haven&#8217;t researched it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-122984</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2012 06:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-122984</guid>
		<description>Defeatists. Why bother blogging at all, RT, if you’ve already given up?

I, for one, believe that my grandchildren yet unborn have the right to live in a peaceful world with a stable climate, and will do whatever I can to bring that about.

Multiply my small actions by millions now, and billions soon enough, and we will wrest control of our future from the pollutocrats whose greed and ignorance would otherwise be our doom, regardless of the foolish chatter of the ignoranti here...

BTW, RT, what about the ozone hole - was that the work of God / Nature / the Flying Spaghetti Monster??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Defeatists. Why bother blogging at all, RT, if you’ve already given up?</p>
<p>I, for one, believe that my grandchildren yet unborn have the right to live in a peaceful world with a stable climate, and will do whatever I can to bring that about.</p>
<p>Multiply my small actions by millions now, and billions soon enough, and we will wrest control of our future from the pollutocrats whose greed and ignorance would otherwise be our doom, regardless of the foolish chatter of the ignoranti here&#8230;</p>
<p>BTW, RT, what about the ozone hole &#8211; was that the work of God / Nature / the Flying Spaghetti Monster??</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2012/10/nature-is-the-latest-living-god/comment-page-1/#comment-122791</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=15389#comment-122791</guid>
		<description>OK, given the evidence in the paper what do you think caused the drought in Northern areas? It seems pretty explicit that the drought wouldn&#039;t have existed in those areas without the human influences.

If there was a house fire (from natural causes) and someone pours petrol over the house next door who would you blame when the house next door burns down? Who caused it to burn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, given the evidence in the paper what do you think caused the drought in Northern areas? It seems pretty explicit that the drought wouldn&#8217;t have existed in those areas without the human influences.</p>
<p>If there was a house fire (from natural causes) and someone pours petrol over the house next door who would you blame when the house next door burns down? Who caused it to burn?</p>
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