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	<title>Comments on: Greening the planet with fossil fuels</title>
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	<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/</link>
	<description>Taking the heat out of global warming</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 22 May 2013 07:00:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Australis</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-167484</link>
		<dc:creator>Australis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2013 23:30:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-167484</guid>
		<description>Simon

This is a very strange post. You apparently think the earth cannot be greening because the messenger got a sentence wrong 20 years ago. How does that logic work? It seems to be an extreme example of the authority fallacy, where the interpretation of scientific data is wholly dependent on your subjective assessment of the previous fallibility of other commentators.

What happened here is a fine example of the flaws of the authority approach. It turns out that the chosen sentence Ridley wrote in 1993 (one of tens of thousands of sentences from this professional writer) was not wrong after all. 

I presume it follows that the earth must be greening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon</p>
<p>This is a very strange post. You apparently think the earth cannot be greening because the messenger got a sentence wrong 20 years ago. How does that logic work? It seems to be an extreme example of the authority fallacy, where the interpretation of scientific data is wholly dependent on your subjective assessment of the previous fallibility of other commentators.</p>
<p>What happened here is a fine example of the flaws of the authority approach. It turns out that the chosen sentence Ridley wrote in 1993 (one of tens of thousands of sentences from this professional writer) was not wrong after all. </p>
<p>I presume it follows that the earth must be greening.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-167130</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 04:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-167130</guid>
		<description>Regarding Ridley and Northern Rock, he is quite opening remorseful about this situation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7969974/Northern-Rock-chief-admits-to-catastrophic-black-mark.html

Did he take a massive payout after the government bailout? I don&#039;t think so. If he did I would think less of the man but he seems the genuine article to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Ridley and Northern Rock, he is quite opening remorseful about this situation.<br />
<a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7969974/Northern-Rock-chief-admits-to-catastrophic-black-mark.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/7969974/Northern-Rock-chief-admits-to-catastrophic-black-mark.html</a></p>
<p>Did he take a massive payout after the government bailout? I don&#8217;t think so. If he did I would think less of the man but he seems the genuine article to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexander K</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-167123</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexander K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 03:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-167123</guid>
		<description>When you cherrypick out-of-context quotes I guess you can make a case for anything you wish, Simon - read Matt&#039;s rebuttal of Lambert&#039;s silliness in WUWT.   If you can bring yourself to focus on something rational, then you may realise where the egregious Lambert got it wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When you cherrypick out-of-context quotes I guess you can make a case for anything you wish, Simon &#8211; read Matt&#8217;s rebuttal of Lambert&#8217;s silliness in WUWT.   If you can bring yourself to focus on something rational, then you may realise where the egregious Lambert got it wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C (NZ)</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-167113</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C (NZ)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 01:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-167113</guid>
		<description>Lambert took a knife to a gunfight.

Matt Ridley very helpfully includes John Christy&#039;s EPS update of his EPW Fig 2.1 that I hadn&#039;t found in jpg form anywhere until now:-

http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/clip_image0042.jpg

Ridley,

&quot;First, the IPCC’s many models, only two of which looks any good at this stage. The rest have all overshot the real world by some margin. Woops.&quot;

The blue line (one of &quot;only two&quot;) right between the satellite and surface-based observations is the Russian Academy of Sciences INM-CM4 model. If the latest decadal prediction from UKMO using their new HadGEM3 model were added (it was too late for CMIP5), it would track the level and trajectory of the surface-based observations and the second of the &quot;only two&quot; projections (black/dark green, don&#039;t know the model).

That means only 3 (or maybe 4) models are practically useful right now; the rest are useless. I&#039;m sure that by 2017 we&#039;ll know if those 3 have any validity or not. My own seat-of-the-pants prediction says that by 2017 a minor downward inflexion will be evident i.e. the beginnings of a 1990s level regime. I can see no reason whatsoever for temperatures to be elevated above 2002 or 2010 levels. Ocean heat release will keep temperatures elevated for some time yes, but not boosted even by a big El Nino. That would only take the level up on a par with 2010, not above it.

Matt Ridley&#039;s seat-of-the-pants prediction has stood up well over 20 years but to call it now is way too premature (and incorrect anyway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lambert took a knife to a gunfight.</p>
<p>Matt Ridley very helpfully includes John Christy&#8217;s EPS update of his EPW Fig 2.1 that I hadn&#8217;t found in jpg form anywhere until now:-</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/clip_image0042.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/clip_image0042.jpg</a></p>
<p>Ridley,</p>
<p>&#8220;First, the IPCC’s many models, only two of which looks any good at this stage. The rest have all overshot the real world by some margin. Woops.&#8221;</p>
<p>The blue line (one of &#8220;only two&#8221;) right between the satellite and surface-based observations is the Russian Academy of Sciences INM-CM4 model. If the latest decadal prediction from UKMO using their new HadGEM3 model were added (it was too late for CMIP5), it would track the level and trajectory of the surface-based observations and the second of the &#8220;only two&#8221; projections (black/dark green, don&#8217;t know the model).</p>
<p>That means only 3 (or maybe 4) models are practically useful right now; the rest are useless. I&#8217;m sure that by 2017 we&#8217;ll know if those 3 have any validity or not. My own seat-of-the-pants prediction says that by 2017 a minor downward inflexion will be evident i.e. the beginnings of a 1990s level regime. I can see no reason whatsoever for temperatures to be elevated above 2002 or 2010 levels. Ocean heat release will keep temperatures elevated for some time yes, but not boosted even by a big El Nino. That would only take the level up on a par with 2010, not above it.</p>
<p>Matt Ridley&#8217;s seat-of-the-pants prediction has stood up well over 20 years but to call it now is way too premature (and incorrect anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-167103</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2013 00:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-167103</guid>
		<description>Matt Ridley responds to Tim Lambert @Deltoid on his &quot;failed predictions&quot;

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/15/matt-ridley-responds-to-tim-lamberts-war-deltoid</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Ridley responds to Tim Lambert @Deltoid on his &#8220;failed predictions&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/15/matt-ridley-responds-to-tim-lamberts-war-deltoid" rel="nofollow">http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/15/matt-ridley-responds-to-tim-lamberts-war-deltoid</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-166758</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-166758</guid>
		<description>On a related note, Gavin Schmidt was berating the WSJ and Lewis for using modal and median values for CS, claiming that the IPCC use a mean value from the PDFs. However, in this diagram from AR4, it appears that they do use modal and medians, not means 


http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/box-10-2-figure-1.html

h/t commenter Alex Harvey on BH:
http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/1/12/lewis-on-schmidt-on-climate-sensitivity.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a related note, Gavin Schmidt was berating the WSJ and Lewis for using modal and median values for CS, claiming that the IPCC use a mean value from the PDFs. However, in this diagram from AR4, it appears that they do use modal and medians, not means </p>
<p><a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/box-10-2-figure-1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/box-10-2-figure-1.html</a></p>
<p>h/t commenter Alex Harvey on BH:<br />
<a href="http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/1/12/lewis-on-schmidt-on-climate-sensitivity.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2013/1/12/lewis-on-schmidt-on-climate-sensitivity.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-166755</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:27:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-166755</guid>
		<description>Matt Ridley took most of his WSJ article from the work of Nic Lewis, who has been posting extensively on Realclimate, Bishop Hill etc recently

To me, Nic appears to know what he is talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt Ridley took most of his WSJ article from the work of Nic Lewis, who has been posting extensively on Realclimate, Bishop Hill etc recently</p>
<p>To me, Nic appears to know what he is talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/2013/01/greening-the-planet-with-fossil-fuels/comment-page-1/#comment-166753</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2013 03:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.climateconversation.wordshine.co.nz/?p=16078#comment-166753</guid>
		<description>The above is true for crops and plantations but not for steady state natural forest. There is still significant net deforestation in the Amazon and Indonesia which more than counteracts the productivity upside.
Matt Ridley&#039;s credibility has taken a hit since &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2013/01/13/the-australians-war-on-science-81-matt-ridleys-20-year-old-wrong-prediction/#.UPLoGTvX2mI.twitter&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this prediction&lt;/a&gt; in 1993 and the spectacular failure of Northern Rock.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The above is true for crops and plantations but not for steady state natural forest. There is still significant net deforestation in the Amazon and Indonesia which more than counteracts the productivity upside.<br />
Matt Ridley&#8217;s credibility has taken a hit since <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2013/01/13/the-australians-war-on-science-81-matt-ridleys-20-year-old-wrong-prediction/#.UPLoGTvX2mI.twitter" rel="nofollow">this prediction</a> in 1993 and the spectacular failure of Northern Rock.</p>
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